Conversation with #osolhackathon

(12:47:45) The topic for #osolhackathon is: OpenSolaris Hackathon - Saturday 31st July / Sunday 1st August
(12:47:45) (notice) [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff:
(12:50:15) jameslegg1 [] entered the room.
(12:51:21) Alasdairrr: afternoon!
(12:51:47) jameslegg left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
(12:51:59) jameslegg1: Hello, my connection is flakey today!
(12:54:48) georges: Lurking, officially not permitted to contribute to the current effort. Working on that for next time.
(12:55:33) Alasdairrr: No problem :)
(12:55:52) Alasdairrr: Thanks for trying though!
(12:57:24) aszeszo [] entered the room.
(12:59:00) georges: Sure thing, it seems like a very worthy effort regardless of any imaginable future directions which might become apparent for OpenSolaris as a distro.
(12:59:55) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(13:00:15) Alasdairrr: it was probably inevitable, Oracle just kind of provided the momentum :)
(13:00:24) awatkins1966 [] entered the room.
(13:01:15) georges: An active independent community cannot be bad for Solaris (or Oracle IMO)
(13:01:15) jameslegg1: I'm fairly curious as to what this Illumos project is about from Garett D'Amore and Co is: and
(13:04:57) georges: I think if we read the info presented literally it is a new distro based on Opensolaris source with much if not all of the usr/closed stuff replaced by open equivalents.
(13:06:52) jameslegg1: Given Garett's involvement with Nexenta these days it sounds likely
(13:07:59) Alasdairrr: We'll find out in 2 days time :)
(13:18:32) Meths: Is the live stream broadcasting yet?
(13:25:04) jamesog [] entered the room.
(13:25:08) jamesog: o/
(13:27:55) Alasdairrr: welcome!
(13:28:15) Alasdairrr: I stuck up a live stream briefly but it was killing the ADSL here and it wasn't terribly interesting - just a picture of a bunch of people typing into their laptops :)
(13:28:41) Alasdairrr: We've got a collection of dev boxes up for people to use
(13:29:12) Alasdairrr: chrisridd and awatkins1966 are working on a mercurial server
(13:29:20) Alasdairrr: aszeszo is doing a build
(13:29:29) Alasdairrr: jamesog i think is also going to give doing a build a go
(13:33:50) jamesog: Whose dev box can I steal until dev0[789] are available?
(13:34:13) chrisridd: I think I've (with lots of help!) got working as a mercurial server.
(13:34:19) jamesog: \o/
(13:34:28) chrisridd: hg clone
(13:36:07) storkone: For the folks at home and in general can you name any diskspace and hardware requirements in general for building OpenIndiana? I can update the wiki afterwards.
(13:36:45) chrisridd: Currently not SPARC :-(
(13:40:09) storkone: Is it in anyway possible to build a bootable installer of a higher build than 134? In other words can your builds be used to do a bare metal installation?
(13:49:19) chrisridd: Alasdairr: have you got clones of the pkg repo (or any other!) on pkgdev?
(13:50:19) Alasdairrr: Not yet!
(13:50:35) Meths: What kind of things are people working on on the dev boxes?
(13:50:38) Alasdairrr: storkone: That's the plan
(13:50:49) Alasdairrr: It's possible to install snv_134 and do a binary update to our 145 build
(13:50:57) Alasdairrr: via IPS
(13:51:00) Alasdairrr: but it only updates the core OS
(13:52:01) georges: Not an answer to your Q but a data point for all as it will come up if not already solved. Current minimum build system env to build 144 or better is 137 (134 should however build 137)
(13:57:08) Alasdairrr: Thanks georges_h, that's a nasty one if you don't know it
(13:57:19) Alasdairrr: we've got some build instructions here
(13:57:20) Alasdairrr:
(13:57:28) Alasdairrr: But step 4 is missing content
(13:57:54) Meths: What's stage are the other gates at?
(13:58:22) Meths: and what's the method for updating from current nightly to the next one?
(13:58:50) chrisridd: There's a doc for installing onnv_145:
(13:59:54) milek [] entered the room.
(14:01:16) jameslegg1 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
(14:01:21) Meths: Yep, done that. Is the repo literally going to be nightly or will it run the same way as /dev so the next update will be 146?
(14:02:44) Alasdairrr: We're still in "project bootstrap phase" at the moment
(14:02:47) Alasdairrr: so there's nothing like that set u
(14:02:51) Alasdairrr: *up yet
(14:03:25) Alasdairrr: But as we're a downstream distro it might not be so necessary to track nightly
(14:03:36) Alasdairrr: it depends how automatable it all is
(14:05:17) Meths: Has anyone thought about or got ideas for a community contrib/juicer replacement?
(14:05:57) jamesog: Alasdairrr: If you don't mind I'll attempt to build on dev01
(14:06:07) Alasdairrr: go for it
(14:06:11) Alasdairrr: nobody else is using it at the moment
(14:06:15) Alasdairrr: i'm still getting the others set up
(14:06:27) georges: Step 4: Not knowing where you are at so far this public data looks correct (How do I start) THEN
(14:06:56) chrisridd: Has anyone else got emails (check your junk folders) inviting them to complete their registration at *ll*m*
(14:08:33) Alasdairrr: Thanks georges_h
(14:10:33) jamesog: chrisridd: Not that I can see :-(
(14:10:51) Alasdairrr: I'm wondering if those instructions are out of date
(14:11:09) Alasdairrr: SUNWonbld at was last updated Aug 2008
(14:14:01) georges: Looks like somebody stopped publishing tools and I am not able to supply. The build instructions look ok but you need correct tools to use nightly.
(14:14:53) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(14:15:00) Alasdairrr:
(14:15:04) Alasdairrr: We're attempting to adapt these
(14:16:01) storkone: chrisridd: I got the registration email directly in my inbox
(14:17:30) chrisridd: The force in my junk mail filter is strong :-)
(14:17:47) chrisridd: Curious how they got my email address though.
(14:17:58) jameslegg [] entered the room.
(14:18:22) chrisridd: hg clone
(14:18:58) Alasdairrr: perfect :)
(14:19:21) chrisridd: Those are the only two needed right now. I'll try and track down some others.
(14:19:44) jamesog: Heh, I've only just pulled pkg-gate from :-)
(14:20:14) chrisridd: It took less time that an IPS image-udpate, I'll bet.
(14:20:55) Alasdairrr: lol
(14:25:20) mat- [~AndChat@] entered the room.
(14:28:29) jamesog: In case anyone else misses it (like I nearly did) that Insanum step 7 missed a bit in the command
(14:28:41) jamesog: should be: osolbins i386 current
(14:34:01) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(14:34:15) jamesog: Right. 'tis doing something!
(14:34:25) Alasdairrr: :D
(14:35:11) blu: woo!
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(14:44:16) jameslegg [] entered the room.
(14:46:36) chrisridd: JDS (ie GNOME) seems to not have a repository or versioned downloads?
(14:46:52) georges: since I always have the onnld stuff available to me I've not needed to build from scratch but using the ws script from the old SYBWonbld in the base of your workspace then in usr/src looking at the setup make target
(14:47:48) jameslegg left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(14:47:49) Alasdairrr: georges_h: it looks like you can just build the tools straight from the onnv-gate
(14:48:08) georges: might be interesting. Then set ONBLD_DIR
(14:48:23) georges: Yup
(14:48:41) Alasdairrr: well my build is going *fingers crossed* :)
(14:48:59) milek: re juicer - i think we should wait another couple of weeks, there is supposed to be some announcement about it soon. So lets wait and see what it is first
(14:49:25) milek: btw: is the video link set-up?
(14:50:43) Alasdairrr: milek: We decided not to bother - we brought a camcorder but it can't do live streaming
(14:51:03) Alasdairrr: and we tried with my laptop but it wasn't terribly good quality and it was just a bunch of people typing into laptops :)
(14:51:19) Meths: milek: There has been, see the note on jucr.o.o/home
(14:51:19) Alasdairrr: I'll take a few photos
(14:51:21) milek: ahhhh... makes sense
(14:51:39) ***blu dodges photo
(14:51:44) milek: so what's the plan and objective for the next couple of months?
(14:51:50) jamesog: Alasdairrr: I have my SLR with me too ;-)
(14:53:16) Alasdairrr: Well we're aiming to make an announcement shortly after Illumos
(14:53:22) Alasdairrr: I know what Illumos are up to but can't say
(14:53:24) georges: Cool !! SLR != M1-A2 (for the few who will grok that)O:-)
(14:53:39) Alasdairrr: it doesn't conflict with this project, instead it helps it significantly :)
(14:54:27) milek: so what you are guys doing is separate to Illumos, right?
(14:54:49) awatkins1966 left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
(14:56:09) Alasdairrr:
(14:56:24) Alasdairrr: separate but there is some overlap
(14:57:28) Alasdairrr: We're hoping to perhaps have a booting and installable ISO by the end of tomorrow of snv_145
(14:57:35) Alasdairrr: but this is a tall order given the tight time constarints
(14:57:52) jamesog: Hmm. Tried building 137 and it still failed
(14:58:27) milek: I assume you are trying to basically build the open solaris distro instead of developing something entirely separate and only based on osol sources, right?
(14:58:45) milek: what happens if Oracle decides to keep publishin osol distro?
(14:58:51) awatkins1966 [] entered the room.
(15:02:48) Alasdairrr: Correct milek
(15:03:07) Alasdairrr: That's fine - their distro doesn't have bug and security fixes
(15:03:10) Alasdairrr: ours will :)
(15:03:22) Alasdairrr: When I say "doesn't" I mean not for free
(15:03:48) Alasdairrr: The Illumos tie-in will also make ours slightly more compelling
(15:03:59) Alasdairrr: <- getting this building onnv_137
(15:04:15) Meths: Sweet. So is projectkyoto dead? Feeding into this or illumos (or both)? Or has no one spoken to them?
(15:04:42) Alasdairrr: I don't think anyone has spoken to them yet - they might be very interested in this project
(15:08:17) milek: yeah, this is a small issue... due to oracle (mis)behavior there seem to be different small cummunities trying to get the situation fixed... it would be much better to pull all of them together
(15:08:35) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(15:08:59) Alasdairrr: We'd love to get everyone involved in this effort, we're kind of trying to get as much done before we announce
(15:09:08) milek: but frankly, the question actually is what oracle will do in regards to osol and hopefuly we will learn soon... as it might make all the difference
(15:09:56) milek: but having said that, re-writing closedbins, writing new documentation, etc. - it won't hurt and actually it is great if it will come outside of sun/oracle
(15:10:53) Alasdairrr: Indeed!
(15:11:06) milek: re jucr.o.o - I don't think this is the message yet... and there will be some other announcement.
(15:11:30) chrisridd: hg clone
(15:12:53) milek: assuming oracle will publish a new osol distro imho the #1 priority is to reinvigorate juicer or come up with its equivalent (should be very easy to pull all the spec files and rebuild all the packages), so people have lots of fsf packages when using open solaris, as it is still one of the main problems for osol
(15:14:49) milek: correct me if i'm wrong - you are trying to be a CentOS equivalent for Open Solaris???
(15:16:06) chrisridd: Only sfw from build 145 added, sorry.
(15:16:58) Alasdairrr: milek, yes we'd be very much interested in doing what you mentioned regarding jucr
(15:17:07) Alasdairrr: And that's absolutely correct regarding centos/rhel
(15:17:07) Alasdairrr: :)
(15:20:17) milek: cool, makes sense
(15:20:48) jamesog: Ah hah. I have b137 going
(15:22:27) milek: I won't have much spare time in coming months but I will try to give you guys a hand :)
(15:23:16) milek: i've contributed some packages to /contrib via jucr, i also contributed some patches to zfs (one already in s10 and open solaris, other in open solaris - look for zil synchronicity)
(15:23:45) milek: but if they shut down jucr i think i should be able to help you with some packages, etc.
(15:24:06) milek: if it happens then imho we should keep spec files and pkgbuild environment
(15:24:40) milek: the good thing is they posted some details on a build zone configuration and pkgbuild/pkgtool are open source and they work pretty good
(15:25:09) milek: so it should be very easy to pull all of the packages from juicer and come up with our own repo if necessary
(15:25:36) richlowe [] entered the room.
(15:25:42) Alasdairrr: Afternoon rich!
(15:25:43) milek: btw: who is going to provide infrastructure (bandwith, servers, etc.), how and....
(15:25:44) milek: ?
(15:25:45) chrisridd: Is jucr now able to publish IPS directly, or does it still go via SVR4?
(15:26:10) richlowe: chrisridd: pkgbuild can build IPS directly, but badly. I'm not sure if that's how jucr actually uses it though.
(15:26:16) richlowe: the JDS guys have been fixing bugs that suggest it's how they intend to use it.
(15:26:17) chrisridd: Can (who are they BTW) host the ISOs?
(15:26:40) richlowe: is Al Hopper (and cyril, and maybe dclarke?)
(15:26:40) Alasdairrr: milek: I've donated two 32GB dual quad core Dell boxes hosted in our datacenter in London to the project
(15:27:16) milek: richlowe: dclarke? I hope not...
(15:27:28) jamesog: Alasdairrr: I should've brought my Netra to try SPARC builds ;-)
(15:27:34) milek: i mean i don't think he is involved in genunix...
(15:27:46) Alasdairrr: jamesog: :)
(15:28:07) jamesog: It probably would've been lighter than my bag with laptop+camera
(15:28:11) milek: Alasdairr: cool
(15:28:38) richlowe: milek: I thought it was some weird arrangement before where the domain belonged to Dennis, but he didn't do much.
(15:29:00) jamesog: I thought Dennis was involved with genunix too
(15:29:14) milek: richlowe: not that you mention it I think you might be right and he was somehow involved
(15:29:22) milek: not=now
(15:29:25) jamesog: Admin Name:DENNIS CLARKE
(15:29:25) jamesog: Admin
(15:29:28) jamesog: says whois
(15:35:09) storkone: richard: Can you shed some light on CAIMAN? Apart from the fact that's the new installer framework. Can we use it somehow to build our own installable OpenIndiana?
(15:38:07) chototsu [] entered the room.
(15:39:06) Meths: Presumably the distribution constructor can?
(15:42:39) Alasdairrr: FYI all: the build servers rather unhelpfully declare CC
(15:42:42) Alasdairrr: I'm just going to fix this out
(15:43:07) jamesog: export CC=/usr/bin/cc :-)
(15:43:13) zygis [] entered the room.
(15:43:15) Alasdairrr: "fix this out"? Am I on drugs? "Fix it" or "sort it out" :)
(15:43:25) Alasdairrr: jamesog: richlowe suggested cw
(15:43:33) jamesog: cw?
(15:43:36) Alasdairrr: cw :)
(15:44:02) jamesog: Oh, that's new to me
(15:44:05) Alasdairrr:
(15:44:15) Alasdairrr: probably unset CC is best
(15:44:20) jamesog: Looks interesting
(15:45:25) zygis: hey where can i find the link to the stream?
(15:45:35) zygis: it is being streamed right?
(15:45:51) Alasdairrr: zygis: The webcam stream was abandoned as it was sucking up bandwidth and was very very uninteresting :) bunch of guys tapping into their laptops
(15:46:11) Alasdairrr: IRC is where most of the conversation is happening anyway
(15:46:27) zygis: i was hoping for some presentation slides
(15:46:32) jamesog: I have some uninteresting photos :-)
(15:46:38) zygis: but yeah, i hear what you're saying
(15:46:53) milek: btw: can we know who have actually attended today?
(15:47:16) ***jamesog just noticed the pile of Clubs, Jaffa Cakes and Oreos next to him
(15:47:19) richlowe: Yes, unsetting CC is best, if you're going to be building ON.
(15:47:43) richlowe: The quick thing to be doing for ON is, don't screw around with variables it cares about, let nightly screw with them for you.
(15:47:45) richlowe: it does it right.
(15:48:04) chrisridd: Does ON expect /usr/gnu/bin anywhere in the PATH, or must it be absent?
(15:48:23) jamesog: Alasdairrr's boxes set some "interesting" defaults... ;-)
(15:48:40) chrisridd: No /usr/sbin on path :-(
(15:48:46) jamesog: Indeed!
(15:48:52) jamesog: and no ll alias
(15:49:02) Alasdairrr: there is if you're root :)
(15:49:13) Alasdairrr: (for /sbin)
(15:49:50) jamesog: I hope nobody else wants this chocolate. I might end up eating it all
(15:51:49) Alasdairrr: lol
(15:51:53) Alasdairrr: there might be more upstairs
(15:51:54) Alasdairrr: so feel free
(15:52:52) jamesog: This build seems to be failing on an awful lot of stuff
(15:53:03) Alasdairrr: mine wasn't too bad
(15:53:15) aszeszo: mine 134 build still going ;)
(15:53:15) Alasdairrr: although i don't have one going at the moment
(15:54:23) jamesog: I'm building 137
(15:56:19) jamesog: Oh, hang on. I'm gonna kill it and start again. I didn't run it with pfexec. Most of the errors are permission denied errors
(15:56:33) jamesog: :'(
(15:57:13) Alasdairrr: What stuff is it trying to do as root? I thought you could do a build as a non-root user
(15:57:24) aszeszo: my WiP notes are here:
(15:57:34) chrisridd: (Off to rescue some chocolate)
(15:57:41) jamesog: I'm not sure, but rather than waste many many hours I thought I'd try again with root privs
(16:00:04) ^blu^ [] entered the room.
(16:00:05) blu left the room (quit: Disconnected by services).
(16:00:06) ^blu^ is now known as blu
(16:00:30) chrisridd: The svn to hg conversion tool seems slow.
(16:01:21) jamesog: Not surprising
(16:01:38) jamesog: Apparently the FreeBSD tree took quite some time to migrate from CVS to svn
(16:01:41) richlowe: how much are you converting?
(16:02:19) richlowe: (and if it's JDS, be a ware that the results suck)
(16:02:30) richlowe: the JDS habit of treating tags like branches really annoys it.
(16:03:14) Alasdairrr: aszeszo: Perfect :)
(16:04:08) chrisridd: Well I thought I'd do all of it. Possibly another tactical error.
(16:05:04) blu left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
(16:05:13) chrisridd: CVS->SVN is hard, because it needs to try and reverse-engineer commit "transactions" from CVS. SVN->hg should be easier.
(16:05:33) jamesog: True
(16:05:44) jamesog: and you're not going back to 1994 :-)
(16:05:48) chrisridd: ... because both ends have the same concept of commit txns.
(16:05:53) chrisridd: Heh.
(16:06:54) Alasdairrr: mailing lists are now working thanks to venture37 :)
(16:06:58) jamesog: \o/
(16:07:09) jamesog: lists.openindiana?
(16:07:19) venture37:
(16:07:33) venture37: or email mailman@
(16:07:46) Alasdairrr:
(16:07:48) Alasdairrr: :D
(16:07:48) jamesog: venture37: openindia? :-)
(16:08:01) Meths: asking for authentication
(16:08:19) Alasdairrr: oh yeah
(16:08:21) Alasdairrr: i'll fix that
(16:11:58) Meths: Someone (milek?) mentioned doc on setting up jucr like build roots - anyone got links?
(16:13:14) milek:
(16:14:20) jamesog: Ah, I'd seen that before. I was put off by the letters RPM :-)
(16:14:53) milek: this is what juicer is using underneath
(16:15:06) milek: pkgbuild is also used on sun provided build servers for open solaris
(16:15:11) milek: it is pretty good - i like it
(16:15:44) storkone: Guys, can anybody please give some diskspace requirements? How much space do the various steps/builds cost? What can be placed on another pool than rpool?
(16:16:12) milek: except for software you can build from whatever path you want
(16:16:18) sanyaade [] entered the room.
(16:16:30) milek: i don't remebmebr how much you need but something like 15g should be enough
(16:16:45) jamesog: sanyaade:
(16:17:03) sanyaade: many thanks
(16:21:09) storkone: is that 15g on top of a minimal 134 installation in a single pool? The 15g does that include source, sunstudio, temporay files? The reason I ask is that I've got a couple of machine with rpool's consisting of 16gb cf mirror's.
(16:21:30) jamesog: How does source juicer work with IPS then? Does it need a local IPS repo?
(16:22:00) jamesog: sorry, I mean pkgbuild
(16:23:29) chrisridd: hg clone
(16:23:56) chrisridd: But NB this is just a checkout of svn head, with no history :-(
(16:24:05) chrisridd: A proper import from svn is needed.
(16:24:54) Alasdairrr: jamesog: it'll need "a repo", local or remote - just needs publishing rights, i would imagine
(16:25:06) milek: storkone - 16g should be fine for all of it - osol installation, compilers, source code, etc.
(16:25:56) milek: you may enable zfs compression as well - for the osol build tree with lzjb I get a little bit more than 2x compressratio
(16:26:14) jamesog: Ah right. Do we have a pkg repo up? pkgdev returns 403
(16:26:25) Alasdairrr: we have a read only snapshot of 145
(16:26:29) Alasdairrr: but you can spin up repos dead easily
(16:26:34) Alasdairrr: so we should get one going
(16:26:38) jamesog: We should :-)
(16:26:44) Alasdairrr: would you mind doing that?
(16:26:53) Alasdairrr: login details for pkgdev are the same as the others
(16:26:55) jamesog: k
(16:27:07) Alasdairrr: there's a manifest in /opt/svc/manifest you can copy and edit
(16:27:22) venture37: jamesog: oops
(16:27:38) jamesog: venture37: I was most surprised to get an IIS error when I went to that page ;-)
(16:27:53) venture37: LOL
(16:28:31) richlowe: You probably want to get the JDS build tags, not just head
(16:28:44) richlowe: they integrate weirdly, in that their trunk is not (usually) where they deliver from.
(16:28:56) richlowe: it's normally a GNOME version ahead (as it is right now, for instance)
(16:29:07) richlowe: you'd probably want the gnome-2-30 branch, or the per-build tags (which are often really branches)
(16:30:10) Alasdairrr: cool - good to know :)
(16:31:03) storkone: milek: The compression is good suggestion. Place the source tree in a compressed zfs. Perhaps it's better to setup a dedicated build machine and upgrade the servers via nfs. can that be done? My servers are rather minimal, no compilers just serving nfs and iscsi.
(16:32:23) Alasdairrr: is anyone giving SFW a go?
(16:32:26) Alasdairrr: if not i might do that next
(16:32:35) Alasdairrr: once i get more build servers up, which i'm just doing now
(16:32:46) milek: that's more or less what I do - compile on a build server and upgrade another one sourcing build over nfs
(16:33:29) Alasdairrr: milek: storkone: don't forget you can create boot environments and upgrade those
(16:34:03) milek: Alasdairrr - I don't know if that's what you've already done but it might be good idea to create a zone as a build server - that way you can easily re-create build server, host multiple of them on one box with no impact on others (apart for cpu, etc.)
(16:34:37) milek: Alasdairrr: sure you can and what's what I do anyway but not on a build server
(16:35:35) milek: Alasdairrr: storkone: for example, on my notebook I usually compile in a global zone, but then have an osol installed in virtual box and upgrade a new be inside it while sourcing bits over nfs from a global zone....
(16:35:44) awatkins1966 left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(16:35:46) milek: that way I don't have to restart my notebook
(16:36:04) milek: and generally you don't want to restart your build servers
(16:36:31) richlowe: If you're building JDS you *require* a zone, chroot, or some convenient virtualization.
(16:36:37) richlowe: their build process, where IPS is involved, screws you.
(16:36:54) richlowe: lewellyn apparently thought he could overcome that, no clue if he succeeded.
(16:37:20) jamesog:
(16:37:23) milek: iirc you mentioned you've got 32gb of memory - i think what you could create zones as build servers and then vbox instances with osol inside for actual build deployment and testing
(16:37:42) milek: that way you can have multiple people working at the same time, reproducibility, etc.
(16:43:38) Alasdairrr: richlowe: Which branch/tag of JDS did you build?
(16:43:49) richlowe: NEVADA_144 (and _143, before it)
(16:43:54) Alasdairrr: I've spotted svn+ssh://
(16:44:03) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(16:44:35) richlowe: with a set of changes laca committed maybe a week ago on top of it.
(16:47:54) chrisridd: I've replaced our spec-files repo with the tip of the JDS opensolaris-2010-03 branch.
(16:48:28) richlowe: the stuff I patched on top was the source url/firefox fixes laca committed, I think I have some other diffs, but I'm not convinced they're good.
(16:48:33) richlowe: the other thing you need is a copy of autoconf-2.61
(16:48:36) richlowe: named as such.
(16:48:42) richlowe: because SUNWgroff is *really* damn picky
(16:49:09) chrisridd: Some spelunking in JDS subversion is going to be necessary :-(
(16:49:12) richlowe: there's a couple of specs you want to hardwire to use /usr/bin/ld rather than /usr/gnu/bin/ld too, but I can't remember what they are (or why they tried to use gld in the first place)
(16:49:31) richlowe: if I get a moment I'll look at what I changed, and how much of it looks beer-induced.
(16:49:54) Alasdairrr: Cool :-)
(16:50:40) richlowe: this really is a massive pain by the way, because they moved all the specs into one directory, to appease jucr, so you don't know what's current, what's "closed", any more, you just have to see what looks permanent, after it fails...
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(17:04:44) mat- [] entered the room.
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(17:11:23) chrisridd: I've re-replaced our spec-files wrepo with a checkout of the NEVADA_145 tag. Sigh.
(17:12:55) chrisridd: Where does X come from (alanc?)
(17:13:16) alanc: yes, it comes from me 8-)
(17:13:24) chrisridd: hg import alanc
(17:14:08) alanc:
(17:14:32) alanc: only slightly out of date since I failed to update for the transition to building IPS packages directly in 144
(17:14:46) alanc: but the hg url is still correct
(17:16:13) chrisridd: Awesome, thanks.
(17:16:21) jamesog: Hm. Does IPS not have the concept of relocatable packages?
(17:16:27) chrisridd: == no screwing around with svn
(17:17:10) richlowe: jamesog: no.
(17:17:15) richlowe: it's some really low numbered RFE
(17:17:24) jamesog: Nice
(17:17:28) Meths: alanc: Any combination of gate versions that don't work together for building X?
(17:17:44) richlowe: hah
(17:17:47) richlowe: it's bug #1
(17:18:16) alanc: X builds 144 & later require IPS build 142 or later and either ON 139 or a header from ON 139
(17:18:33) richlowe: and you probably want to use DMAKE_MODE=serial DMAKE_MAX_JOBS=1
(17:18:41) alanc: I thought #1 was wesolows "Humans are irrational"
(17:18:49) richlowe: since the parallel build apparently only works on hardware that precisely matches Alan's
(17:18:58) richlowe: alanc: thought that was only true of the test instance?
(17:19:00) alanc: everyone should have a U27
(17:19:34) richlowe: Your employer disagrees in at least 2 different ways.
(17:19:51) alanc: oh, I guess I was thinking of
(17:24:53) chrisridd: hg clone
(17:25:19) alanc: sigh, my draft email instructions for the X IPS builds are unreachable since it's in my IMAP drafts folder which is on the IMAP server that's down right now
(17:26:13) richlowe: unbeehivable.
(17:26:29) chrisridd: Presumably pkg image-update does some underhand magic to make packages install to a different directory?
(17:26:44) richlowe: No idea what you mean.
(17:26:57) chrisridd: Sorry, that was wrt to relocatable packages.
(17:27:02) alanc: pkg supports -R for installing under alternate roots
(17:27:15) alanc: just not relocating to other directories under the root
(17:27:55) alanc: so you can take the X packages and make them install to /usr/bin or /mnt/usr/bin, but not /usr/X11/bin
(17:28:05) richlowe: all package operations are relative to the image root, which is not necessarily '/', -R specifies an image directory, and pkg defaults to the image you're in (but don't rely on this).
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(17:57:34) alanc: updated with the changes I remembered or had access to a copy of - not great, but hopefully a little closer to reality
(17:57:47) Alasdairrr: ohh - thank you very much alan :)
(17:59:00) alanc: for actual reality, rich is the only external person I know who has built X since the IPS conversion
(17:59:43) Alasdairrr: Alright
(17:59:57) alanc: (not counting the person I know who has been trying to build Xsun, but that's a different pile of source, not included in OpenSolaris distro or consolidations, and still SVR4 packaged)
(18:00:03) Alasdairrr: Is the public distribution constructor stuff up to date enough to build an ISO from recent snv builds?
(18:00:32) Alasdairrr: or is that a whole world of pain
(18:00:44) alanc: as far as I know, it's exactly what Solaris RE used to build the snv_144 images we have internally
(18:00:55) Alasdairrr: oh, perfect :)
(18:02:10) ***alanc has family arriving for a visit soon, so won't be watching IRC much of the weekend, though I'll leave it open to check later
(18:02:47) Alasdairrr: thanks alan, hopefully rich will be around if we get stuck majorly
(18:02:58) Alasdairrr: if we get super stuck do you mind if we drop you an email?
(18:04:20) alanc: not at all, but I won't see it until they fix my IMAP server 8-)
(18:04:26) Alasdairrr: :D
(18:04:34) Alasdairrr: Your help and presence in here is really appreciated, same for Rich too - thanks again
(18:04:39) richlowe: alanc: it may not be quite the same as RE are using.
(18:05:38) alanc: btw, one additional word of warning - unless you are absolutely positively sure that everyone has version 141 or later of the pkg gate bits installed, even when they are starting on 134 and upgrading to your bits, you *really really really* want the b146 version of SUNWxscreensaver.spec from JDS
(18:06:01) alanc: or to manually delete the "" in the description in the older specs
(18:06:15) richlowe: You're going to end up using the importer anyway, so hacking it by hand is just as easy.
(18:06:17) Alasdairrr: *makes notes*
(18:06:25) alanc: the nested quoting in the description breaks IPS in so many many different ways
(18:06:37) richlowe: all that's fixed now, isn't it?
(18:06:51) richlowe: I only realize when I've bothered to check upgrade from 134
(18:07:23) alanc: except IPS thinks it's all fixed now, so trying to image-update from older builds feeds them descriptions they can't hack
(18:07:31) richlowe: Right, that's what I meant. :\
(18:08:05) blu [~UNIX@] entered the room.
(18:08:25) alanc: I think I've also seen errors from using mismatched bits with AI, and the repo-dvd generation for 144 failed because RE ran it on a machine with an out-of-date set of IPS bits
(18:08:47) richlowe: Hmmm, I have a bunch of aclocal hackery in my jds workspace.
(18:09:08) richlowe: I'm not sure if that's something y'all would end up needing, I think it related to cheating my way out of having to upgrade SFW before starting the JDS build.
(18:09:39) richlowe: Alasdairrr: Also, another X note. You need autopoint, which you won't have until you build a newer SFW
(18:09:40) alanc: I can't claim to have been clever enough to have planned this as a smokescreen so people didn't notice the disruption from the X refactoring in the same build, but it worked
(18:09:55) richlowe: so put /opt/dtbld bin into your $PATH, to use the JDS CBE bits that do have autopoint
(18:10:08) Alasdairrr: Alrighty
(18:10:52) richlowe: sure would be nice if my diffs weren't being mangled by bogus stty settings (hey look, it's the 80's!)
(18:11:48) Alasdairrr: :)
(18:17:18) jamesog: Rah. OK. I'm retrying on 134 using aszeszo's wiki page
(18:17:27) Alasdairrr: Cool :)
(18:17:35) jamesog: in screen, with script logging it all ;-)
(18:18:11) Alasdairrr: Once I get this box up I'm going to get onnv_138 going and then give SFW a go
(18:18:31) richlowe: SFW is easy, beyond the time it takes.
(18:18:38) richlowe: oh, and Alan having broke it
(18:18:43) richlowe: but that only matters if you install new X bits first.
(18:18:44) Alasdairrr: :D
(18:18:58) richlowe: they assume freetype is in /usr/sfw still.
(18:20:25) Alasdairrr: that doesn't sound too hard to avoid/fix
(18:30:40) jamesog:
(18:30:40) jamesog: \o/
(18:31:16) jamesog: (Disclaimer: I have no idea if that package works, but in theory it should)
(18:40:01) Alasdairrr: ohh, nice :)
(18:40:43) estibi [] entered the room.
(18:43:08) Alasdairrr: estibi: Afternoon!
(18:43:25) estibi: afternoon
(18:44:33) Alasdairrr: how are you doing?
(18:45:39) estibi: doing fine
(18:46:29) richlowe: SUNWbrltty is one that needed to be forced to use /usr/bin/ld, SUNWgnome-themes has a dubious dependency on SUNWneutral-plus-cursors, which I think is now obsolete, SUNWprint-monitor depends upon SUNWpc and SUNWps in a way that never seemed to be satisfiable, and you need to hack whichever packages you've not actually built out of SUNWzz-gnome-l10n. And the aclocal hackery to get GTKDOC* macros expanded, which as I said, may not
(18:46:30) richlowe: be needed now.
(18:46:40) richlowe: there was another package that needed the LD hack, but I didn't, apparently, change the spec, so I dunno which it was.
(18:46:50) richlowe: you'll recognize it by it being the package that makes GNU ld crash...
(18:47:56) Alasdairrr: alrighty
(18:48:00) Alasdairrr: *makes more notes*
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(19:03:14) mat- [] entered the room.
(19:15:01) jamesog: Lovely. My phone is saying 0% battery remaining... but it's still going
(19:15:05) jamesog: I suspect not for long, though
(19:18:23) Alasdairrr: what is it?
(19:18:29) Alasdairrr: someone might have a charger
(19:18:38) Alasdairrr: I've got a blackberry charger here
(19:18:58) richlowe: there are still decent phones that don't take power over microusb?
(19:19:29) jamesog: It's a Palm Pre. It's microusb :(
(19:20:02) jamesog: Amazing it hasn't even managed 7 hours
(19:20:19) jamesog: iPhone 4 coming next week \o/
(19:23:07) milek [] entered the room.
(19:32:13) Alasdairrr: 7 hours is pretty bad, but i guess the reception in here is terrible
(19:32:40) jamesog: Nah, this phone has always had dreadful battery life
(19:34:48) jamesog: work upgraded my Blackberry to a 9700 the other day. Battery is much better
(19:35:14) Alasdairrr: ohh, nice
(19:35:19) Alasdairrr: I'm on the Bold
(19:37:00) jamesog: Yeah, I used to be on the 9000. The 9700 is much lighter and the keyboard is nicer
(19:38:36) chrisridd [] entered the room.
(19:39:12) chrisridd: Back home!
(19:39:57) Alasdairrr: yo!
(19:40:15) milek:
(19:41:07) Alasdairrr: try to keep that quiet :)
(19:41:26) richlowe: Well, he failed on that count already.
(19:41:36) Alasdairrr: lol
(19:42:34) Alasdairrr: Basically if you google illumos everything is there to see
(19:42:41) Alasdairrr: so the second he announced it on the mailing list it was public knowledge
(19:43:34) milek:
(19:45:27) chrisridd: I'm cloning their repo right now into
(19:46:29) Alasdairrr: Cool :)
(19:46:37) Alasdairrr: I'll try a build of it
(19:46:41) Alasdairrr: this could be interesting
(19:46:55) chrisridd: It is still coming down...
(19:47:55) chrisridd: Done.
(19:48:19) chrisridd: How're the builds from onnv-gate doing?
(19:49:06) Alasdairrr: well the ADSL died
(19:49:10) Alasdairrr: and that killed everyones builds :D
(19:49:18) Alasdairrr: but all the new ones are going strong still
(19:49:23) chrisridd: screen FTW
(19:49:31) Alasdairrr: ja :)
(19:50:40) chrisridd: My pizza's going down a treat :-)
(19:53:55) Alasdairrr: we're all scoffing pizza here
(19:53:57) Alasdairrr: so sticky fingers
(19:54:03) Alasdairrr: you'll have to excuse the irc quietness :)
(19:54:41) milek: man screen :P
(19:55:05) milek: hmmm... i wouldn't mind pizza now :)
(19:55:26) milek: enjoy it!
(19:55:42) chrisridd: The main annoying bit with screen is that it usurps Ctrl-A. I mean, who'd need that as a keystroke?
(19:56:03) Alasdairrr: on Putty/Windows I can proudly report that home/end works
(19:56:04) chrisridd: Ctrl-A D to detach from screen.
(19:56:10) Alasdairrr: so ctrl-a/ctrl-e unneeded :)
(19:56:40) Meths: So use tmux, Ctrl+B (default) or key of your choice.
(19:56:59) chrisridd: tmux is the modern screen-a-like?
(19:57:05) Meths: Yep
(20:04:06) Bill- [] entered the room.
(20:04:19) Bill-: evenin'
(20:04:37) Alasdairrr: yo! :)
(20:04:53) Alasdairrr: How are you doing?
(20:05:31) Bill-: had a bit of a snooze, feeling better
(20:05:53) Alasdairrr: cool! :)
(20:06:06) Alasdairrr: jamesog just reported that snv_134 completed building
(20:06:07) Alasdairrr: yay
(20:06:16) Alasdairrr: 1 hour 49
(20:06:26) milek: not bad
(20:07:10) Alasdairrr: Aye!
(20:07:34) Alasdairrr: time to try 138
(20:08:46) chrisridd: That's onnv, or onnv + sfw + ... ?
(20:09:09) chrisridd: Also well done James!
(20:09:59) Alasdairrr: just onnv
(20:10:05) Alasdairrr: got an SFW build going but it's bitching
(20:10:08) Alasdairrr: just sorting out trivial things
(20:10:12) Alasdairrr: missing /usr/ucb/install for example
(20:10:45) chrisridd: Ye gods, that's ancient.
(20:10:54) chrisridd: Is ginstall a suitable work-alike?
(20:11:09) richlowe: So, the official SFW build instructions require installing everything
(20:11:09) Alasdairrr: probably
(20:11:19) richlowe: you're probably better served by cautiously installing its dependencies.
(20:11:22) chrisridd: pkg:/file/gnu-coreutils
(20:11:33) richlowe: unless you have a local mirror of 134
(20:11:43) Alasdairrr: we do have a local mirror yeah
(20:11:48) chrisridd: Yes, throwing on the GNU toolchain might well cause surprises.
(20:12:25) richlowe: I didn't keep notes of the extra crap I had to install, I don't think, I just ran the build through with -k, then installed all the packages providing the crap it whined about.
(20:12:39) richlowe: but really, that burns through maybe 8 hours in build you know will fail, so maybe "install everything" actually *is* faster.
(20:12:55) Alasdairrr: What does -k do? (noob questions a plenty)
(20:13:06) chrisridd: Sounds like a keep going flag.
(20:14:03) mat-_ [~AndChat@] entered the room.
(20:14:25) richlowe: Oh, it's a dmake flag, nightly sets it by default
(20:14:30) richlowe: and yes, keep going on error.
(20:14:55) Alasdairrr: we'll turn that off and build through trying to eliminate errors
(20:15:57) mat- left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
(20:16:05) Alasdairrr: Is that in NIGHTLY_OPTIONS?
(20:17:22) Alasdairrr has changed the topic to: #osolhackathon
(20:17:29) Alasdairrr: May as well stick this up
(20:18:46) mat- [] entered the room.
(20:18:51) Alasdairrr: ahh, MAKEFLAGS
(20:20:59) mat-_ left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
(20:21:34) chrisridd: Alasdairrr, just sent you a DM.
(20:26:47) Alasdairrr: cool - responded
(20:26:56) Alasdairrr: Andrew got distro constructor working
(20:27:02) Alasdairrr: it's building an ISO from the official release
(20:27:05) Alasdairrr: it's in the final stages
(20:27:27) Alasdairrr: the next step will be to run it against the repo we populate with a later build
(20:27:33) Alasdairrr: onnv + sfw + x + jds
(20:32:45) chrisridd: Does it build the ISO from things in IPS?
(20:33:02) Alasdairrr: it does
(20:34:08) richlowe: The trick to building it from your own development bits is to remove 'entire' from its list of packages, and add each consolidation incorporation at the appropriate version
(20:34:17) richlowe: though no doubt y'all will eventually publish a correct 'entire'
(20:34:34) chrisridd: That's good, it means we don't have to puzzle how each separate consolidation does things.
(20:35:38) Alasdairrr: We'd love a correct 'entire'
(20:37:16) chrisridd: alanc posted something yesterday to osol-discuss that was interesting.
(20:38:03) chrisridd: That is: anything published in the dev and release repos is redistributable by anyone. (Paraphrasing).
(20:38:26) chrisridd: So that includes closed bits like sunstudio12u1.
(20:39:57) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(20:40:31) chrisridd: and java 6.
(20:41:02) chrisridd: Not sure where that leaves updated versions of those things.
(20:49:19) chrisridd: Phoronix have noticed illumos.
(20:52:06) richlowe: given their usual accuracy I'm sure they'll describe it a species of shrub or something.
(20:52:22) chrisridd: Heh
(20:52:23) awatkins1966 left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(20:53:20) Meths: Shame it appears under "Latest Linux News" ;P
(21:01:16) mat- left the room (quit: Read error: No route to host).
(21:01:35) mat- [] entered the room.
(21:05:28) mat- left the room (quit: Read error: No route to host).
(21:10:14) mat- [] entered the room.
(21:11:43) mat-: Good evening gentlemen. I've been earwiging through out most of today (I had hoped to be there today) and I would like a bit of assistance in deciding if I should be with you tomorrow.
(21:12:48) mat-: It sounds like you are doing interesting and valuable work but I am just a sysadmin still getting to grips with open solaris. I doubt that I could be of any assistance. My questions may become tiresome.
(21:14:41) storkone: Can phoronix publish some more news? Does the hackathon produced an installable iso today?
(21:16:23) Alasdairrr: mat: Do come! It's an opportunity for you to play and learn :)
(21:16:38) Alasdairrr: storkone: We'd prefer it if you didn't publish anything about the construction of a distribution
(21:16:44) Alasdairrr: and more talk about it just being about hacking opensolaris
(21:16:46) Alasdairrr: :)
(21:17:09) Alasdairrr: (if that's alright!)
(21:17:16) Alasdairrr: OpenIndiana the project will be announced in 2 days
(21:22:06) mat-: ok, will try to be there, coming up from Portsmouth so may not make it for 10. It might sound boring, but my particular interests are 1. Playing nice in a windows world. 2. Systems Monitoring/Management
(21:22:52) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(21:23:05) Alasdairrr: My work PC runs Windows :) But I'm mostly weaning myself onto Mac OS X
(21:23:13) Alasdairrr: I spend 95% of my time ssh'd into things though
(21:23:56) mat-: same here - I am 'the unix guy' at work.
(21:25:04) mat-: which also appears to include storage, firewalls, proxy servers and anything else that is not Active Directory integrated.
(21:25:23) mat-: maybe the microwave will be my responsibility next..
(21:25:39) Alasdairrr: haha :D
(21:25:49) Alasdairrr: If your microwave has a serial port, then maybe... :)
(21:26:34) chrisridd: Opensolaris has ZFS/CIFS support which can use AD authentication.
(21:26:57) Alasdairrr: aszeszo: The sed stuff on the wiki seems garbled
(21:31:23) venture37: trying to build SFW
(21:33:55) Alasdairrr: That's SFW build 145 isn't it
(21:34:00) Alasdairrr: being built on 134
(21:34:03) Alasdairrr: I think that might not work
(21:34:27) mat-: I had a opensolaris box up at work for just that reason - a few of our older UNIX boxes (including one SCO box (the shame of it)) have dead or dieing tape drives. Our network backup solution is windows based.. I like the way that the smb server on opensolaris can limit access by ip/hostname. - meant I did not need to worry about AV on the box. When on of my colleagues noted that they would not be able to manage if, even with documentation, I replace
(21:34:27) mat-: d it with NexentaStor - it's got a clicky clicky GUI you see.
(21:35:47) richlowe: venture37: as the error messages say, it's compalining that you lack junit
(21:36:24) chrisridd: I think I just untarred the build 145 sfw tarball into the repo. I mentioned it here, but colloquay won't show history that old.
(21:37:10) richlowe: cyril keeps a pseudo-hg repo of SFW on genunix
(21:37:32) richlowe:
(21:37:59) Alasdairrr: Rich, would you be interested in getting involved in openindiana at some point in the future? or do you consider yourself a free agent
(21:38:06) Alasdairrr: and thanks
(21:38:08) chrisridd: Sun just ship sfw tarballs, I think. Does Cyril just unpack each one over the top and commit?
(21:38:26) richlowe: chrisridd: Yeah, and commit with their changelog as the message
(21:39:40) chrisridd: Nod. Who's Cyril BTW?
(21:40:26) richlowe: Cyril Plisko
(21:40:42) richlowe: mostly seems to be the one looking after the hg stuff on genunix
(21:41:10) chrisridd: I may talk to him about the JDS mess ;-)
(21:42:08) richlowe: git-svn seems to do the right things
(21:42:16) richlowe: I suspect hg convert would then be able to convert from the git.
(21:43:25) venture37: BUILD SUCCESSFUL
(21:43:25) venture37: Total time: 17 seconds
(21:43:30) venture37: thanks richlowe
(21:43:31) chrisridd: Yes, that's another approach.
(21:43:50) venture37: pc load letter? wtf does that mean
(21:44:08) Meths: on a printer?
(21:45:18) venture37: Meths, yes, office space reference
(21:46:10) Meths: If it's HP, you need to hit continue (shift continue if continue is that colour). You've sent the wrong paper size to the printer basically.
(21:52:46) venture37: Meths:
(21:53:42) storkone: Alisdair: I'm not with Phoronix, it was just a cynical remark. I'm just trying to make sense of you're instructions over here because I couldn't attend. Remember that you even arranged a bed for me? I'm just interested in a reproducible build. To be more precise a build which yields an installable iso to do a bare metal install.
(21:53:58) Alasdairrr: ahh
(21:54:23) Alasdairrr: yes that's what we're aiming to do - fully document the process of building the distro from source and making a bootable ISO
(21:54:26) Alasdairrr: everything is there to do it
(21:54:38) Alasdairrr: it's just a case of ironing out the builds
(21:54:53) Meths: venture37: Ah, gotcha.
(21:54:54) Alasdairrr: the builds get stuck in an IPS repo and then distro constructor makes an ISO
(21:55:19) Alasdairrr: once we've got our first ISO in place and the documentation we'll work on automating the process and getting procedures in place
(21:57:50) storkone: QualityAssurance is one of my day tasks. And that includes documentation and build scripts not only code. Still sorry I couldn't attend.
(21:59:22) Alasdairrr: No problem :)
(21:59:28) Alasdairrr: you're here in the IRC channel
(21:59:34) Alasdairrr: if you're interested in a dev box to work on i can do that
(22:03:40) Alasdairrr:
(22:03:47) Alasdairrr: Odd errors
(22:04:51) richlowe: Expected errors
(22:05:15) richlowe: The SVR4 package build doesn't work without the closed sources, because the package boundaries weren't ever set up for that.
(22:05:23) richlowe: also, why would you build anything old enough that it still had SVR4 packages?
(22:06:31) Alasdairrr: Hmm
(22:06:38) jamesog: Does b134 still have SVR4 packages then?
(22:06:54) richlowe: Yes.
(22:06:55) Alasdairrr: The closed sources were untarred as per documentation
(22:07:02) richlowe: No, they're the closed binaries.
(22:07:07) Alasdairrr: ohh
(22:07:10) Alasdairrr: i see
(22:07:16) richlowe: And yeah, ON switched to IPS packaging in build 136
(22:07:22) jamesog: Ah, lovely
(22:07:26) richlowe: there are some binaries that can't be redistrbuted, so aren't even closed-bins.
(22:07:40) richlowe: and the SVR4 packages comingled them.
(22:08:40) Meths: richlowe: Is that going to happen with x before that went IPS too?
(22:09:29) Alasdairrr: So the build is still valid/usable
(22:09:32) Alasdairrr: correct?
(22:10:03) Alasdairrr: More dumb questions - how does one get the output of the 134 build into an IPS repo?
(22:13:05) richlowe: I have no idea about pre-IPS builds of X.
(22:13:20) richlowe: Alasdairrr: you build SVR4 packages, and then run the importer from the pkg-gate
(22:14:02) richlowe: same as you're going to need to do to get SFW IPS packages.
(22:15:34) Alasdairrr: Ahh cool - I don't think we've tried that yet
(22:15:51) richlowe: not sure why you'd want b134
(22:16:05) Alasdairrr: OpenIndiana 2010.03 :)
(22:16:12) Alasdairrr: It's been MIA for 5 months
(22:16:20) richlowe: just making painful amounts of work for yourself though.
(22:17:16) richlowe: I suspect that to build SVR4 packages for ON, you're best bet is just removing all the crap it won't be able to find, since it won't be in the IPS packages anyway, for the same reason.
(22:17:52) chrisridd: The benefit of starting with 134 is that you end up with something that's semi-comparable to what's in the dev repo, ie you can check you've got all the pkgs.
(22:18:26) chrisridd: But you do also end up with something that's 6 months old.
(22:18:36) richlowe: and that's totally different from where you'll be next
(22:18:52) richlowe: as everyone (except probably SFW) switches to building IPS packages natively
(22:18:52) chrisridd: Yep, that too.
(22:19:08) richlowe: which is the point everyone will split redistributable v. not in their packaging, probably.
(22:19:24) Alasdairrr: Well that is an option - to not bother with stuff < 136
(22:19:34) Alasdairrr: And do OpenIndiana 2010.08
(22:19:35) richlowe: 136 for ON, 144 for X.
(22:19:40) richlowe: 145 for pkg.
(22:19:47) richlowe: I think somewhere in the late 130's for caiman.
(22:20:19) chrisridd: I'd say don't bother doing anything you want to release, earlier than 145.
(22:20:57) chrisridd: Anything interim may be useful only as a stage to get us to 145.
(22:21:34) richlowe: It'd be useful to publish the major interim bits that make the next builds possible.
(22:21:49) Alasdairrr: a binary 138 would be good
(22:21:53) Alasdairrr: my 138 build just exploded
(22:21:53) richlowe: I think ON 139 for the new linker bits, and the header X needs.
(22:21:53) chrisridd: But I'm not completely au fait with the packaging history over the non-releases since 134, as in who built what how.
(22:21:58) richlowe: pkg at 142 for X, too.
(22:23:35) Alasdairrr: richlowe: would you mind casting a quick eye over this and pointing out any obvious errors:
(22:24:17) chrisridd: The complete svn co of spec-files (all branches, tags) is 11 gigs. I expect this has lots of duplication.
(22:25:33) chrisridd: Will work on converting that tomorrow. But time for bed!
(22:25:48) Alasdairrr: *nods* nighty night chrisridd
(22:26:16) chrisridd: s/expect/hope/
(22:27:30) richlowe: Alasdairrr: a bunch of the packages you install should be implied by developer/opensolaris/osnet, depending on the ON you're building, you may also need perl-510, you need 'p' in the tar options when extracting the closed-bins, probably not worth running 'dmake setup' after building the tools.
(22:27:42) richlowe: especially since 'dmake setup' tripped on a circular dependency until we fixed it when removing bfu.
(22:28:48) Alasdairrr: *updates the wiki*
(22:32:27) Alasdairrr: Is the PATH correct?
(22:34:26) georges: SNV=134 ??
(22:34:39) Alasdairrr: we're actually doing 138 now
(22:34:44) Alasdairrr: but our 134 build from earlier did work
(22:35:28) georges: Sorry not clear enough. the line in
(22:36:08) Alasdairrr: Ah thats a typo
(22:36:12) Alasdairrr: now fixed :)
(22:37:02) chrisridd left the room (quit: Quit: chrisridd).
(22:41:09) richlowe: Alasdairrr: $PATH looks right, nightly and bldenv update it as they feel necessary anyway.
(22:41:33) Alasdairrr: Cool.. and one last thing, the sun studio versions match as necessary?
(22:44:28) aszeszo left the room (quit: Quit: aszeszo).
(22:45:23) Alasdairrr:
(22:50:29) venture37 left the room (quit: Quit: off home, byeeeee).
(22:58:51) Alasdairrr: right, home time - that's the hackathon over in the UK but it will be resuming tomorrow :-)
(22:59:05) Alasdairrr: Lots learned today, lots achieved, looking forward to tomorrow
(22:59:07) Alasdairrr: bye all!
(22:59:28) Alasdairrr left the room (quit: Quit: Alasdairrr).
(23:00:54) storkone: Thanks and till tomorow. At what time do you intend to start tomorrow?
(23:02:09) Meths: I'd assume 10 again
(23:02:39) Meths: GMT as per advert
(23:03:02) ***Meths wonders if he meant GMT...
(23:10:58) mat- left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(23:29:16) jamesog: storkone: Yep, about 10am BST
(23:29:43) Meths: lol, glad we're agreed on that then.
(23:30:13) jamesog: You could do 10GMT but you'd be an hour early ;-)
(23:30:55) Meths: GMT would be an hour late, and apparently it is when we were supposed to start today.
(23:31:38) jamesog: Er, yes, you're right about late. It's late ;-)
(23:31:53) jamesog: I suspect Alasdair meant BST
(23:44:15) ***jamesog boredly waits for onnv_138 to finish building
(23:45:29) Meths: How long so far? You'll need to do >=139 tomorrow for the later X
(23:46:41) jamesog: About 1h45 so far
(23:47:07) jamesog: once I've got 138 I'll boot into it to build 145
(23:51:44) Meths: jamesog: Did your builds run properly when you switched to pfexec (a lot) earlier?
(23:54:26) blu [~UNIX@] entered the room.
(23:54:47) jamesog: I couldn't get it to work at all running as non-root
(23:54:57) jamesog: switching to root makes it Just Work
(23:55:54) blu: the opensolaris build?
(23:57:21) jamesog: nod
(23:58:01) blu: ic
(23:58:13) blu: so did we get a build working today then?
(23:59:42) jamesog: Well, I got a 134
(23:59:46) jamesog: working on 138 right now
(01/08/2010 00:00:28) blu: i thought we were building off 134?
(00:00:35) jamesog: We are
(00:00:49) blu: ic
(00:01:01) jamesog: We wanted to roll our own 134 to make OpenIndiana 2010.03 ;-)
(00:01:40) blu: oh i see
(00:17:29) jamesog: Ooh, I think the build is finishing. Looks like it's generating packages
(00:26:29) blu: yay!
(00:37:43) aszeszo [] entered the room.
(00:41:30) blu left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
(00:46:23) jamesog: Success!
(00:50:34) jamesog:
(00:52:38) aszeszo: oh, wow!
(00:52:51) aszeszo: using the instructions from the wiki?
(00:53:23) aszeszo: (was it built)
(00:55:12) jamesog: Yep, Alasdair and I were refining things as we went
(00:55:21) jamesog: I probably need to make a few more additions
(00:55:27) jamesog: like, it only seemed to work as root
(00:56:07) aszeszo: cool
(00:56:07) ***jamesog just creating a BE
(00:56:28) milek left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
(01:01:54) jamesog: dare I activate this BE and reboot? :-)
(01:02:10) jamesog: I think I'll wait 'til morning
(06:44:56) blu [~UNIX@] entered the room.
(07:26:31) chrisridd [] entered the room.
(08:25:54) blu: woohoo
(08:25:58) blu: webpage looks better now
(08:37:34) blu left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
(08:47:53) storkone: Goodmorning all
(08:58:53) aszeszo: morning
(09:20:33) aszeszo: time to catch a train
(09:20:43) aszeszo: see you later!
(09:20:51) aszeszo left the room (quit: Quit: aszeszo).
(09:53:48) jamesog: Morning
(09:58:42) chrisridd: Morning
(09:59:23) chrisridd: This morning, I shall be mostly trying to get mercurial and svn talking to each other.
(09:59:41) chrisridd: aka building my own local versions
(10:00:22) jamesog: Eep
(10:01:30) chrisridd: Is mail set up yet? Sevan was asking yesterday about emailing commit notifications to <insert mail address here>
(10:01:59) jamesog: Hmm, I'm not sure. I sent Alasdair my b138 success and he forwarded it to openindiana-discuss
(10:02:04) jamesog: I didn't know there was one
(10:02:59) chrisridd: There were mutterings about mailman
(10:03:26) jamesog: Yeah, I was talking to Sevan about it
(10:04:54) ***jamesog wonders where Alasdair is
(10:05:04) jamesog: I want to reboot dev09 into onnv_138
(10:07:17) Alasdairrr [] entered the room.
(10:07:22) jamesog: Hurrah!
(10:07:27) Alasdairrr: Morning!
(10:07:50) jamesog: How do we get onto the mailing list then?
(10:07:57) Alasdairrr: Wiki has instructions
(10:08:18) Alasdairrr: but i'm not sure what the list administrator password is, sevan has it
(10:08:35) Alasdairrr: My b137 probably failed because I forgot to update pkggate
(10:08:41) Alasdairrr: i'm going to update the build instructions
(10:09:09) jamesog: Um, mailman asking for basic auth?
(10:09:17) coma: morning, should we update pkggate first?
(10:09:36) blu [~UNIX@] entered the room.
(10:09:57) Alasdairrr: Yeah if you're doing build 137 or 138 on snv_134 then you'll need to update pkg-gate
(10:10:35) chrisridd: OK, hg (home brew build) is cloning spec-files (JDS) properly.
(10:10:41) coma: and the reason is…
(10:10:56) jamesog: OK, I joined the list the old-school way :-)
(10:11:23) georges: Morning Alasdair - Noise on Illumos ramping up - - You want to stay under the radar or is a blogging buildup in the plan O:-)
(10:11:51) Alasdairrr: Illumos isn't a distribution :)
(10:11:59) chrisridd: Might be worth pinging Jörg directly. He's on twitter too.
(10:12:05) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(10:13:17) georges: ahh ok
(10:13:48) Alasdairrr: We'll need to spend time today working on a press release
(10:13:50) jamesog: Alasdairrr: I'd like to reboot dev09 into onnv_138 sometime. I assume you have console access to watch it?
(10:14:06) Alasdairrr: yeah!
(10:14:07) Alasdairrr: go for it
(10:14:08) Alasdairrr: :)
(10:15:13) jamesog: k, it's going down
(10:17:05) Alasdairrr: dev09 is shutdown now
(10:17:06) Alasdairrr: hmm
(10:17:30) Alasdairrr: Ohh
(10:17:34) Alasdairrr: It's booting :)
(10:17:42) Alasdairrr: OpenIndiana_b138 :D
(10:17:56) chrisridd: You patched the OS name?
(10:18:01) jamesog: Nope!
(10:18:09) jamesog: There is a zfs dataset with that name though
(10:18:14) chrisridd: :-)
(10:18:24) jamesog: aha, it's pinging
(10:18:37) Alasdairrr: in nightly there's an option to give your build a name
(10:18:46) Alasdairrr: build 138 is up :)
(10:18:51) chrisridd: Like naming your children.
(10:18:57) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(10:19:06) jamesog: ssh not up yet
(10:20:08) Alasdairrr: it's stuck trying to mount the nfs
(10:20:14) Alasdairrr: i'll pull that config
(10:20:15) chrisridd: So hg has taken 10 minutes to munge 411 svn commits. spec-files has about 22000 commits.
(10:20:22) jamesog: Hmm, it shouldn't be
(10:20:31) jamesog: unless you put it in vfstab?
(10:20:37) Alasdairrr: yeah its in vfstab
(10:20:40) jamesog: oh
(10:20:57) Alasdairrr: damn that upset pkg/update
(10:21:00) Alasdairrr: i'll reboot it
(10:22:49) jamesog: Oh, I can login now
(10:23:00) jamesog: jamesog ~ (dev09.openindiana): uname -a
(10:23:00) jamesog: SunOS 5.11 OpenIndiana_b138 i86pc i386 i86xpv
(10:23:03) jamesog: \o/
(10:23:06) Alasdairrr: :D
(10:23:11) Alasdairrr: pkg/update:default went into maintenance
(10:23:16) Alasdairrr: might need to check that out
(10:23:42) jamesog: I noticed that root has been getting mail about a failing cronjob for that
(10:24:22) jamesog: [ Aug 1 10:21:55 Executing start method ("lib/svc/method/pkg-update start"). ]
(10:24:25) jamesog: /sbin/sh[1]: exec: lib/svc/method/pkg-update: cannot execute [Permission denied]
(10:24:28) jamesog: [ Aug 1 10:21:55 Method "start" exited with status 126. ]
(10:24:49) jamesog: it's not executable!
(10:25:14) jamesog: OK, it's working now
(10:25:44) jamesog: timestamp on pkg-update is 20:32... that must be from an earlier build attempt
(10:26:06) Alasdairrr: right
(10:28:44) blu left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
(10:36:31) Alasdairrr: I've updated:
(10:36:44) Alasdairrr: jamesog: you might want to add details of how you updated to snv_138 after building
(10:37:04) jamesog: nod
(10:37:24) jamesog: Actually that's already in the Building ONNV page
(10:38:39) chrisridd: Illumos has just hit the OpenSolaris group on LinkedIn
(10:39:08) jamesog: b145 is building :-)
(10:45:54) Alasdairrr: Interesting - I wonder if we should pw protect the wiki and think about doing our own pre-announcement of an announcement
(10:47:31) blu [~UNIX@] entered the room.
(10:50:46) chrisridd: I think we should lock down the dev and pkgdev boxes a bit. Require ssh keys?
(10:51:07) Alasdairrr: Probably a good idea
(10:51:16) Alasdairrr: pkgdev for sure
(10:52:08) chrisridd: Yes, that's the key one.
(10:52:22) chrisridd: No pun intended.
(10:52:27) Alasdairrr: :D
(10:52:38) Alasdairrr: We can all add our own user accounts then delete/disable the openindiana account
(10:52:43) Alasdairrr: i'll add an account for me now with my ssh key
(10:53:43) chrisridd: The spec-files import is running quite slowly under the openindiana user, so please don't disable that a/c.
(10:53:47) Alasdairrr: just as an example... groupadd alasdair ; useradd -m -g alasdair -d /export/home/alasdair -s /usr/bin/bash -P 'Primary Administrator' -c 'Alasdair Lumsden' alasdair
(10:53:54) Alasdairrr: okay no problemo!
(10:54:07) an0key [] entered the room.
(10:54:17) Alasdairrr: Morning an0key !
(10:54:50) an0key: Morning :)
(10:54:58) jamesog: I had been using my own account and ssh keys anyway ;P
(10:55:08) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(10:56:17) blu left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
(10:57:39) jamesog: This book arrived yesterday:
(10:58:10) jamesog: Might try and read while things are building
(10:58:21) Alasdairrr: oh i didn't know you had an interest in html
(10:58:23) chrisridd: I might have killed the hg import. Dang.
(10:58:39) georges: How do I get a key to you ?
(10:58:53) Alasdairrr: /msg would do!
(10:59:11) Alasdairrr: Or email,
(10:59:21) Alasdairrr: Would you like access to one of the dev boxes?
(10:59:24) jamesog: Alasdairrr: I do a reasonable amount of web coding. I'm rubbish at design, but given a layout I can reproduce it in code
(10:59:35) Alasdairrr: jamesog: Cool :-)
(11:00:15) Alasdairrr: jamesog: So your build produced a pkg depot, did you fire up a pkg server to do the pkg update of a new boot environment for 138?
(11:00:32) jamesog: Ah, yes, but that would've been stopped after the reboot
(11:00:34) jamesog: hang on
(11:00:49) georges: Repos and wiki for now since I'm not permitted to help out (shouldn't have asked but I have this honest streak)
(11:01:21) Alasdairrr: georges_h as a username?
(11:01:49) Alasdairrr: Well better to be honest than to upset your employers :)
(11:02:13) jamesog:
(11:02:21) Alasdairrr: ta!
(11:02:26) Alasdairrr: is there a way to merge IPS repos?
(11:02:38) ***jamesog looks at chrisridd
(11:02:46) georges: does the username need to be related to the user who created the key ?
(11:03:07) chrisridd: Merge repos?
(11:03:08) jamesog: Can probably just tar up the packages dir and copy to pkgdev
(11:03:09) Alasdairrr: it can be anything you like :)
(11:03:16) georges: bigblackdog
(11:03:55) chrisridd: Don't *think* so, but maybe something in the repo mirroring code does this. ie ask Alasdairr :-)
(11:04:16) jamesog: I'll just tar and copy to pkgdev
(11:04:45) Alasdairrr: thanks james
(11:05:25) Alasdairrr: Somehow the official /dev IPS repo has all the builds and they must transfer them between repos somehow
(11:05:30) Alasdairrr: Time to RTFM I suppose
(11:07:46) ***jamesog looks at /data/export/illumos-gate on pkgdev
(11:09:51) chrisridd: onnv-gate's just changed. (20 commits)
(11:10:06) Alasdairrr: georges_h: That's set up - you can ssh to
(11:10:12) Alasdairrr: georges_h: And for the wiki you should be able to self-register
(11:11:17) Alasdairrr: any problems let me know! :)
(11:11:29) Alasdairrr: pkgdev is the package server/mercurial server
(11:11:36) Alasdairrr: The wiki/website/etc are hosted elsewhere
(11:11:53) Alasdairrr: And we have 12 build machines, dev01 to for doing actual OS builds
(11:12:20) jamesog:
(11:12:49) Alasdairrr: perfect :)
(11:12:51) Alasdairrr: thanks james!
(11:18:31) chrisridd: Jörg's twitter id is c0t0d0s0 (of course!)
(11:19:32) georges: working - thanks
(11:21:32) chrisridd: Did the pkg.depot merge work? Looking at systems/zones/brand/lx via web browser I see its FMRI is pkg://on-nightly/system/zones/brand/lx@0.5.11,5.11-0.138:20100731T232914Z
(11:21:54) chrisridd: "on-nightly" being the iffy part.
(11:21:58) Alasdairrr: we haven't tried a merge
(11:22:11) jamesog: on-nightly is just what nightly calls the repo it creates
(11:22:18) jamesog: It might be tweakable
(11:22:35) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(11:23:08) jamesog: jamesog ~ (dev09.openindiana): ggrep -r on-nightly /opt/onbld/env/*
(11:23:08) jamesog: /opt/onbld/env/gatekeeper:# PKGPUBLISHER_REDIST="on-nightly"; export PKGPUBLISHER_REDIST
(11:24:26) chrisridd: set publisher to I guess
(11:24:52) Alasdairrr: would make sense I guess - what's the FMRI on the official dev repo? or just
(11:25:07) chrisridd:
(11:25:15) chrisridd: (for the dev repo)
(11:25:24) aszeszo [] entered the room.
(11:25:28) Alasdairrr: same for release, just checked
(11:25:36) Alasdairrr: so yes would make sense for us
(11:25:50) chrisridd: Ditto release repo.
(11:26:17) chrisridd: Might need to start gathering a list of branding points.
(11:26:44) chrisridd: Which sounds like we're worryingly close to getting things working.
(11:27:08) Alasdairrr: well we don't have SFW / X / JDS
(11:27:13) Alasdairrr: which are large components
(11:27:17) Alasdairrr: that'll be the focus for today i guess
(11:27:31) jamesog: Alasdairrr:
(11:27:53) chrisridd: Did I read from richlowe that SFW took 8 hours to build?
(11:28:08) georges: Is caiman also a goal
(11:28:25) Alasdairrr: yes i would have thought so, we'll probably need it for distro constructor
(11:28:43) chrisridd: What did Andrew use yesterday?
(11:28:58) Alasdairrr:
(11:29:04) Alasdairrr: distro constructor, his notes are here
(11:29:09) Alasdairrr: Apparently it was super easy
(11:29:44) Alasdairrr: it wouldn't surprise me if building SFW would take such a long time
(11:30:08) Alasdairrr: We have a box with a Zeus IOPS in it
(11:31:42) Alasdairrr: I should build it up - it would be perfect for doing an SFW build
(11:31:45) Alasdairrr: i'll do that now
(11:32:20) chrisridd: SFW sounds like it might benefit from a massively parallel build.
(11:32:36) jamesog: Isn't that what dmake does?
(11:32:57) chrisridd: Yes. Could allocate more cores to the SFW build box
(11:33:04) jamesog: Ah, I see
(11:33:18) Alasdairrr: I'm happy to give it 8 cores yeah
(11:33:22) Alasdairrr: who here is going to do an SFW build?
(11:33:54) Alasdairrr: :P
(11:33:58) Alasdairrr: Okay I'll give it a go
(11:34:26) chrisridd: caiman's cloned: hg clone
(11:34:49) chrisridd: (No idea why slim_source and not caiman.)
(11:35:21) jamesog: heh
(11:35:45) chrisridd: Last tag in that repo is Build144.
(11:36:05) georges: caiman == slim installer nowadays
(11:37:33) chrisridd: Nod. Just wishing for some consistency in the repo names.
(11:38:06) Alasdairrr: Do we know if SFW builds out to an IPS repo or SVR4 packages? and if IPS which build started doing that?
(11:38:38) georges: Internally 144 is the latest to complete release engineering so the installer for 145 is probably still in flux the tip may be good - maybe not I wonder if 144 is safer goal but expect 145 to be ready sometime this week
(11:40:01) chrisridd: Nod. Makes sense for this repo to be the last to get tagged as 145.
(11:41:34) georges: AFAIK SFW is still SVR4
(11:42:36) chrisridd: rich mentioned an importer in pkg-gate was needed to convert SFW into IPS.
(11:43:04) jamesog: pkgsend can import SVR4, so I assume they just have a tool to wrap around it
(11:45:15) Alasdairrr: In that case I'm going to give SFW for build 138 a go, perhaps we can conservatively aim to get an snv_138 ISO built
(11:48:07) aszeszo: jamesog: was it required to build onnv as root?
(11:48:47) chrisridd: We (read: I) didn't import sfw_138, just sfw_145.
(11:49:02) Alasdairrr: okay
(11:49:06) Alasdairrr: I'll pull down the 138 tarbal
(11:49:19) georges: Groking about on I think they might refer to the import makefile in the IPS gate
(11:50:37) georges:
(11:50:57) jamesog: aszeszo: I'm still not certain. Quite a few things were failing when I wasn't root, and it just worked when I was, but maybe that was to do with having a clean environment once I su'd
(11:52:38) Alasdairrr: *clicks* thanks georges_h
(11:53:43) aszeszo: firebug
(11:53:52) aszeszo: sorry, wrong window :)
(11:55:42) aszeszo: found a comment which suggests that you should be able to build as non-root user, look for mgerdts's comment here:
(11:56:19) aszeszo: how's your b145 build going?
(11:58:06) jamesog: It's... going :-)
(11:59:06) chrisridd: I think going to 145 and then trying to do sfw et al is sensible.
(12:01:05) ***aszeszo agrees
(12:01:28) chrisridd: And with that, I'm off to watch the F1 for a few hours :-)
(12:01:33) milek [] entered the room.
(12:01:54) milek: morning
(12:02:20) sanyaade left the room (quit: Remote host closed the connection).
(12:02:58) aszeszo: morning
(12:03:08) jamesog: Morning
(12:03:41) georges: Suspect only real liability in 145 is ongoing dev work in caiman gate but as I mentioned that should resolve out later this week.
(12:13:08) Alasdairrr: okay - I'll do a binary update to 145 and build SFW
(12:13:34) jamesog: You don't want to wait for the official OpenIndiana build? ;-)
(12:13:47) Alasdairrr: lol
(12:13:50) Alasdairrr: i could do :D
(12:13:53) Alasdairrr: how long has it been building?
(12:13:58) jamesog: About an hour
(12:14:01) jamesog: I had to restart
(12:14:24) aszeszo: there is -I switch to nightly which should do incremental builds
(12:14:43) Alasdairrr: ohh, useful
(12:15:04) aszeszo: it did not speed things up too much last time I was using it though
(12:15:59) aszeszo: sorry, it is lowercase i
(12:16:08) jamesog: yeah, was just about to say :-)
(12:16:30) georges: -n is useful with -i if you don't want to spend cycles talking to the repo
(12:16:46) jamesog: What is a bringover?
(12:17:02) Alasdairrr: i've managed to kill dev08
(12:17:08) jamesog: Woo?
(12:17:16) mat- [] entered the room.
(12:17:17) georges: old teamware terminology for pull/clone
(12:17:26) jamesog: Ah
(12:18:09) Alasdairrr: Welcome Mat!
(12:18:15) Alasdairrr: Mat is in the room with us
(12:18:27) ***jamesog is about a mile down the road :p
(12:19:31) mat-: hi there, will try to help. Making tea might be my forte at the mo :)
(12:19:42) Alasdairrr: lets get you a build server mat
(12:19:43) jamesog: I could do with some tea
(12:20:18) georges: offline for an hour or so but leaving the session up for later review - need to walk the actual bigblackdog with his dog pals
(12:20:34) Meths: Ah, just caught up. Afternoon. Looks like you've been having a fun morning.
(12:20:35) Alasdairrr: okie dokie - have fun :) thanks for the help georges_h!
(12:21:58) Meths: Alasdairrr: If you're going for an intermediate complete build across all gates I'd go for 142 or 143 as you need PKG > 141 for later X.
(12:22:30) Alasdairrr: Meths: what about doing 145 of everything?
(12:24:08) Alasdairrr: dev08 is happy on build 138 now
(12:24:17) jamesog: My 138?
(12:24:22) Alasdairrr: Yep
(12:24:23) Alasdairrr: :)
(12:24:24) jamesog: Woo!
(12:24:32) aszeszo: dev05 is on your b138 as well ;)
(12:24:36) jamesog: Woo!
(12:24:38) Alasdairrr: Oracle Corporation SunOS 5.11 OpenIndiana_b138 July 2010
(12:24:40) Meths: Alasdairrr: I'm talking about an intermediate across all gates if you wanted to release a complete ISO before 145
(12:24:56) jamesog: Alasdairrr: Need to change "Oracle Corporation" ;-)
(12:25:20) Meths: Alasdairrr: If you're just going to go to 144/145 and just keep intermediates internal then ignore me.
(12:26:00) Alasdairrr: Meths: Sure. Do you think it would be possible to release a complete ISO of 145 itself though? We have a binary build of onnv_145 supplied by estibi, and a build of 145 in progress, so we were thinking we could just go and do all the other consolidations of 145 if that's possible
(12:26:14) milek left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
(12:26:26) Meths: Alasdairrr: I think georges_h has said this morning that not every gate has finalised 145 (SFW?) so a complete 145 ISO isn't yet possible.
(12:26:35) Meths: 144 is
(12:26:46) Alasdairrr: Okay - 144 build time
(12:26:49) Alasdairrr: i'll do a 144
(12:27:34) jamesog: Remember I updated the build notes with a bit that needs to go in
(12:27:48) jamesog: maybe we should start calling that :-)
(12:28:02) Alasdairrr: perhaps not a bad idea :)
(12:28:10) aszeszo: just looked at richlowe's notes
(12:28:24) aszeszo: he is not using a, C and l nightly flags
(12:28:37) Alasdairrr: do we know what those flags do?
(12:28:49) aszeszo: -a create cpio archives
(12:28:49) aszeszo: -C check for cstyle/hdrchk errors
(12:28:49) aszeszo: -l do "make lint" in $LINTDIRS (default: $SRC y)
(12:30:02) aszeszo: without the above I think the builds should take less time
(12:30:13) aszeszo: let's see which flags nexenta guys are using...
(12:31:03) jamesog: Hehe. Someone asking about Illumos in #opensolaris
(12:31:57) aszeszo: nexenta:
(12:31:59) aszeszo: -NIGHTLY_OPTIONS="-FNnaCDlmrt"; export NIGHTLY_OPTIONS
(12:31:59) aszeszo: +NIGHTLY_OPTIONS="-Nndr"; export NIGHTLY_OPTIONS
(12:32:57) aszeszo: found in nexenta-gate/debian/opensolaris.patch
(12:40:58) jamesog: Alasdairrr:
(12:41:08) Alasdairrr: oh james you amazing person!
(12:43:18) chrisridd left the room (quit: Quit: chrisridd).
(12:44:00) an0key left the room.
(12:52:43) jamesog: I wonder if we should try and use dmake as it was intended and actually do a distributed build
(12:52:47) jamesog: it would speed things up a bit
(12:54:59) sanyaade [] entered the room.
(12:58:45) Alasdairrr: sure
(12:58:48) Alasdairrr: :)
(12:58:52) Alasdairrr: i can increase the number of cores on the boxes
(12:58:57) Alasdairrr: psrinfo is returning 2
(12:59:02) Alasdairrr: as there are two physical processors
(12:59:05) Alasdairrr: but of course each has 4 cores
(12:59:25) Alasdairrr: so if you like i can increase your xVM guest to 8 cores and you can set the multiplier to 4 in
(12:59:44) jamesog: psrinfo -v
(13:00:56) jamesog: but what I mean is, have some sort of build-master that shares an NFS export of onnv-gate, then have other boxes be dmake hosts, then the build-master will dish out work to each dmake host
(13:02:17) coma: dmake: Warning: Command failed for target `packages.i386/system-management-snmp-sea-sea-config.dep'
(13:02:17) coma: dmake: Warning: Command failed for target `packages.i386/system-trusted-global-zone.dep'
(13:02:17) coma: dmake: Warning: Target `install' not remade because of errors
(13:02:36) Alasdairrr: jamesog: How easy is that to do do you think?
(13:02:47) coma: i get these when i try to build b138 here
(13:03:15) coma: anyone? please help
(13:03:22) Alasdairrr: coma: Did you set the MAILTO so you get a full report email?
(13:03:52) coma: yes
(13:04:13) coma: i am running it on my own test machine.
(13:04:20) Alasdairrr: could you stick the full contents of the email at ?
(13:04:21) coma: i have the complete log file if u want
(13:04:32) Alasdairrr: sure, if you could pastebin that too that would be good
(13:04:33) coma: the complete log or just the email
(13:04:40) Alasdairrr: the email would do to start with
(13:04:56) coma: ok. let me paste it
(13:04:57) Alasdairrr: also the full output of the env command from the shell you started the build from
(13:04:59) Alasdairrr: thanks
(13:06:08) Alasdairrr: onnv_144 is now building
(13:07:10) chrisridd [] entered the room.
(13:08:16) Alasdairrr: wb chrisridd
(13:08:54) chrisridd: New to this IRC lark - wb?
(13:09:14) jamesog: Alasdairrr: I think it just requires setting up NFS and rsh
(13:09:15) coma: is the email log
(13:09:27) jamesog: Will investigate after lunch
(13:09:37) Alasdairrr: chrisridd: wb = welcome back
(13:09:39) jamesog: Oh, b145 is just generating its IPS repo, btw
(13:09:45) Alasdairrr: thanks coma
(13:09:48) Alasdairrr: jamesog: Nice!
(13:09:49) chrisridd: Ah!
(13:10:12) Alasdairrr: coma: Your build succeeded
(13:10:13) chrisridd: About to leave again. Son needs to play on CBBC website.
(13:10:15) coma: thank you, Alasdairrr
(13:10:26) coma: yeah, but the packages is empty
(13:10:40) Alasdairrr: oh yeah and it only run for 29 minutes
(13:10:44) Alasdairrr: Hmm, that's very strange
(13:10:59) coma: there is nothing under packages/i386/nightly-nd/repo.redist/pkg/
(13:11:21) coma: when i run a pkg repo on that directory, it also shows nothing
(13:11:35) Alasdairrr: Your dmake is a different version to the one i built with
(13:11:42) coma: let me paste an error mesg on the full log
(13:11:43) Alasdairrr: did you update the pkg tools?
(13:12:00) coma: yes, i updated the pkg tools
(13:12:29) Alasdairrr: compiler version differs too
(13:12:32) coma: i did one without the pkg tools. that one has a few pkg built.
(13:12:35) Alasdairrr: i think it might be a Sun Studio version issue
(13:13:04) Alasdairrr: also did you build this as a non-root user?
(13:13:10) coma: yes
(13:13:13) Alasdairrr: we've all been building as root since we encountered some issues
(13:13:18) coma: oh.
(13:13:20) Alasdairrr: in theory you shouldn't need to build as root
(13:13:43) Alasdairrr: there are some build reports in the wiki
(13:13:46) coma: well… i observed some files in the pkg gate were installed as the non-root user
(13:13:59) Alasdairrr: might be worth comparing your email and compiler versions against our email reports
(13:14:04) jamesog: the pkg-gate stuff has to be installed as root
(13:14:05) coma: so, i was thinking "oh.. XXXX"
(13:14:10) jamesog: it fails otherwise
(13:14:24) Alasdairrr:
(13:14:28) jamesog: you can make as non-root, but dmake install must be run as root
(13:14:39) coma: ic.
(13:14:57) Alasdairrr: James are you using dev01 at all?
(13:15:01) coma: wait. i have a few questions
(13:15:28) coma: the wiki says, "pfexec ln -s ../sunstudio12.1 /opt/SUNWspro"
(13:15:40) coma: do we really need that?
(13:16:03) Alasdairrr: Yes - that sets up the symlink for /opt/SUNWspro to point to /opt/sunstudio12.1
(13:16:16) aszeszo: wll, not axactly
(13:16:20) coma: i follow the wiki and install the sunstudioexpress first. but, then the wiki also tells me install sunstudio12.1 and 12.1u1
(13:16:51) aszeszo: it will make /opt/SUNWspro/sunstudio12.1 point to /opt/sunstudio12.1
(13:17:08) aszeszo: it is not needed if you specify lint env vars
(13:17:37) coma: so, can i just install 12u1 and forget about the SUNWspro?
(13:17:39) aszeszo: ss12.1 lint is needed to build newer versions
(13:17:43) aszeszo: all the rest is using 12.0
(13:18:08) aszeszo: I mean
(13:18:51) coma: then, do i need to have studioexpress?
(13:18:52) aszeszo: newer builds require sunstudio 12.0 + lint from version 12.1
(13:20:07) coma: i installed sunstudioexpress when i followed the instruction in pkg gate.
(13:20:42) Alasdairrr: we're just checking
(13:23:26) Alasdairrr: our build machines have old poop on them :)
(13:24:46) coma: here is the error code u may be interested in it.
(13:25:13) coma: i am going to bed and will try again tomorrow. here is sunday 5:30am.
(13:25:23) coma: i mean "a.m."
(13:25:42) coma: so, goodnite :-)
(13:25:51) Alasdairrr: nighty night! :D
(13:25:54) coma: or good morning. watever
(13:25:57) Alasdairrr: hopefully you can get it tomorrow
(13:25:57) Alasdairrr: :)
(13:26:07) coma: thx. bye
(13:28:12) venture37 [~venture37@unaffiliated/venture37] entered the room.
(13:28:37) venture37: hello
(13:28:53) Alasdairrr: Morning!
(13:28:56) Alasdairrr: we,, afternoon!
(13:28:58) Alasdairrr: *well
(13:29:01) venture37: :)
(13:29:09) venture37: afternoon
(13:29:37) venture37: how's it going over there?
(13:29:45) Alasdairrr: not bad not bad!
(13:30:02) venture37: have more people turned up
(13:30:27) Alasdairrr: most people are working from home today, but sanyaade, mat and aszeszo popped in today
(13:30:45) mat-: hi.
(13:31:13) venture37: ah ok
(13:31:16) venture37: hi mat-
(13:31:48) venture37: poking around dev07, the SFW build failed with the same errors again
(13:32:03) venture37: another thing that's missing is python24-config
(13:32:46) Alasdairrr: richlowe seemed to think you'd need everything installed to do an SFW build
(13:34:05) venture37: everything related to python or everything in a software repo
(13:36:04) Alasdairrr: I think he meant literally all software
(13:36:06) Alasdairrr: but that seems nuts
(13:41:07) Alasdairrr: jamesog: If your onnv_145 build fails at all it might be related to compiler issues, we've updated the wiki notes
(13:44:41) venture37:
(13:47:34) jamesog: Heh, I forwarded the build log to openindiana-discuss but it was too big
(13:48:16) jamesog: Alasdairrr: No, I'm not using dev01 at the moment, although it has my ports work on there
(13:51:06) aszeszo: trying to build packages & ips repo of the latest pkg-gate
(13:51:36) jamesog: I'll copy the b145 pkg repo onto pkgdev shortly. Just trying to work out how to merge the repos properly
(13:51:38) aszeszo: installable on osol b134 based systems
(13:51:48) venture37: the redistributable package is 1814MB & it's pulling in a wide range of packages
(13:56:30) Alasdairrr: right!
(13:56:32) Alasdairrr: information we need
(13:56:33) Alasdairrr: perfect
(13:57:44) jamesog: Is anyone syncing from my onnv_138 repo atm?
(13:57:48) jamesog: I want to stop it
(13:58:13) Alasdairrr: i'm not
(13:58:15) Alasdairrr: you can check with netstat
(13:58:31) jamesog: yeah, can't see anything
(13:58:40) venture37: not me, I'm watching the files counter on dev07 as pkg installs the redistributable package
(14:00:04) Alasdairrr: i'm going to use dev03 now
(14:00:34) Alasdairrr: venture37: Could you /msg me the mailman admin password?
(14:00:36) jamesog: I can move my ports stuff to dev09 if you want
(14:00:57) Alasdairrr: its alright - dev01 is a fine home for it for now
(14:01:14) venture37: Alasdairrr: yep, one sec, there's a few
(14:02:28) jamesog: OK, I'm trying to merge the repos
(14:03:10) Alasdairrr: if i'm right, sfw-date is just the latest tarbal
(14:03:15) Alasdairrr: do we know which tarbal?
(14:03:31) ***jamesog points at #openindiana :D
(14:06:39) Alasdairrr: :p
(14:06:59) jamesog: How did that guy get ops?
(14:07:08) Alasdairrr: in about an hour i'm going to have to start doing boring admin-y things like working on the website and drafting a press release
(14:07:17) Alasdairrr: i have no idea
(14:07:23) Alasdairrr: a while ago i was opping everyone who entered the channel
(14:07:26) jamesog: heh
(14:07:37) jamesog: netsplit seems to have 'fixed' that
(14:08:11) Alasdairrr: It's an old habit from IRCNet which has no chanserv
(14:08:24) jamesog: Ah yes. I haven't been on IRCnet for _years_
(14:08:39) Alasdairrr: if you op everyone then nobody can take the channel
(14:08:45) Alasdairrr: if you have 50+ in a channel anyway
(14:08:53) jamesog: /deop * ;-)
(14:08:56) Alasdairrr: you can't de-op people fast enough
(14:08:59) Alasdairrr: 3 at a time
(14:09:00) Alasdairrr: :)
(14:09:04) jamesog: irssi can do it :p
(14:09:05) Alasdairrr: its throttled by the irc server
(14:09:07) jamesog: oh ok
(14:09:15) Alasdairrr: :)
(14:09:32) Alasdairrr: works surprisingly well as a kind of anarchy
(14:09:41) Alasdairrr: It can lead to ban/kick fights
(14:09:56) Alasdairrr: but the community casts judgements on the fools that play that game
(14:11:36) Alasdairrr: bloody hell is slow
(14:11:50) Alasdairrr: 480kb/sec
(14:12:03) jamesog:
(14:12:20) jamesog: That has both 138 and 145 packages
(14:12:33) jamesog: I'm not sure how to get the front page to show you different versions
(14:12:45) aszeszo: cool
(14:12:48) jamesog: á la
(14:12:49) Alasdairrr: it doesn't seem to be showing any 138 packages
(14:12:58) jamesog: you have to tick the "show all versions" box at the top
(14:13:02) Alasdairrr: doh
(14:13:15) Alasdairrr: perfect :)
(14:13:25) aszeszo: did your 145 build succeed then?
(14:13:44) jamesog: Yes
(14:13:54) aszeszo: excellent
(14:13:55) jamesog: I forwarded to openindiana-discuss
(14:14:15) Alasdairrr: i'll up the max listsize
(14:20:51) venture37: Any objections to adding a google groups mirror for the mailing lists?
(14:23:03) Alasdairrr: nope!
(14:29:32) Alasdairrr: that merge worked really well james
(14:30:17) Alasdairrr: Will we need to run the separate repos to update to a specific release since we don't have an @entire ?
(14:30:25) Alasdairrr: otherwise it might just by default go straight to the newest one
(14:31:09) jamesog: This is what I'm trying to work out
(14:31:31) jamesog: Er, there seems to be no entire package
(14:32:08) Alasdairrr: yeah it's some kind of magic package cluster
(14:34:10) aszeszo: just finished creating local osol dev b134 mirror
(14:34:21) aszeszo:
(14:34:33) aszeszo: it has metadata and binary blobs in it
(14:34:44) Alasdairrr: perfect :)
(14:34:47) aszeszo: it can be used in place of
(14:34:59) aszeszo: should speed local distro contructor runs
(14:37:38) Alasdairrr: Fantastic - worth sending an email to the discuss list
(14:37:43) Alasdairrr: i'll take the password off the mailman page
(14:39:11) jamesog: Hmm. Might need to rebuild :(
(14:39:24) jamesog: on-nightly is embedded as the publisher prefix
(14:39:24) Alasdairrr: rebuild what?
(14:39:29) Alasdairrr: ah
(14:39:44) jamesog: Even though I changed the IPS repo, all the packages are for on-nightly
(14:40:07) Alasdairrr: Crap I hope my build isn't doing it as 'on-nightly'
(14:40:12) jamesog: It will be
(14:41:04) Alasdairrr: It's in the onbld area isn't it
(14:41:48) Alasdairrr: I guess we can add PKGPUBLISHER_REDIST to
(14:41:57) jamesog: Yes :-)
(14:42:02) jamesog: It's already there, commented
(14:42:05) Alasdairrr: *updates wiki*
(14:43:41) Alasdairrr: right, time to redo the build
(14:43:56) Alasdairrr: 1 hour wasted
(14:43:57) Alasdairrr: :D
(14:44:31) jamesog: I'm just checking if there's anything else to tweak
(14:47:00) jamesog: Right, here we go :-(
(14:47:28) aszeszo: is -i nightly switch working for you?
(14:48:55) jamesog: Oh, forgot about that
(14:49:04) jamesog: Too late now
(14:49:20) jamesog: I can try that on b138
(14:49:31) Alasdairrr: whats -i again?
(14:49:41) jamesog: incremental; no 'make clobber'
(14:51:27) Alasdairrr: ah
(15:05:47) aszeszo: is gone?
(15:07:46) venture37:
(15:08:25) Meths: Alasdairrr: Are you building a complete 144 on 138?
(15:09:49) Alasdairrr: I'm building onnv_144 at the moment on onnv_138 (This still has 134 for everything else)
(15:10:15) Alasdairrr: We have a complete build 145 available as an IPS repo but it has a publisher of on-nightly
(15:10:26) Alasdairrr: we're redoing build 138, 144 and 145 with as the publisher
(15:10:44) Alasdairrr: (i think?)
(15:11:18) Meths: Oh, okay, cool.
(15:11:49) Alasdairrr: we're then going to do SFW, slim_install and various others on the 144 build
(15:12:49) Alasdairrr: do we have the 138 repo working?
(15:12:55) aszeszo: onnv145 built successfully and 144 is still baking, correct?
(15:13:19) Alasdairrr: onnv145 built successfully with on-nightly as a publisher, james is re-doing the build
(15:13:29) Alasdairrr: I'm baking 144 with the correct publisher
(15:13:43) Alasdairrr: 138 has on-nightly as it's repo name still, i think someone still needs to kick off a build for that
(15:25:10) mat-: hey ho, heading back to sunny Pompey good to finaly meet some other opensolaris users.
(15:25:26) Alasdairrr: thanks for coming along mat- !
(15:25:45) mat- left the room (quit: ).
(15:36:15) jamesog: I'll do 138 again once my 145 has finished
(15:39:05) Alasdairrr: Cool
(15:39:12) jamesog: No, NME, it is not acceptable to play Girl From Mars
(15:39:18) Alasdairrr: lol
(15:39:28) Alasdairrr: we have the same stuff on here :)
(15:40:04) jamesog: They seem quite slow to update which track they're playing too
(15:40:11) Alasdairrr: yeah
(15:40:19) Alasdairrr: NME radio got "shut down" not so long ago
(15:40:24) Alasdairrr: and it's just a jukebox at the moment
(15:40:26) jamesog: Really?
(15:40:27) jamesog: heh
(15:40:28) Alasdairrr: but it should be coming back in september
(15:40:38) Alasdairrr: not shut down so much as the people paying for it pulled the plug or something
(15:40:40) jamesog: jukebox is better. No annoying DJ
(15:40:42) Alasdairrr: the guardian had a page about it
(15:40:44) Alasdairrr: yeah
(15:41:31) Alasdairrr: is it possible to get the binary snv_138 repo back up?
(15:41:38) jamesog: Oh, yeah
(15:41:54) Alasdairrr:
(15:43:23) aszeszo: jamesog: which box did you build 145 on?
(15:43:29) jamesog: dev09
(15:43:32) aszeszo: thx
(15:43:44) jamesog: It's rebuilding currently
(15:44:11) aszeszo: ok
(15:44:20) jamesog: the box is a bit slow :-)
(15:46:22) Alasdairrr: The disks are pretty busy on reads
(15:46:38) jamesog: I'm tarring the packages dir over ssh
(15:46:49) jamesog: for 138
(15:47:00) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(15:47:21) jamesog: ok, pkgdev:10138 is back up
(15:47:51) Alasdairrr: thanks :D
(15:57:32) aszeszo: jamesog: I'll make a clone of your b145 tree
(15:57:40) jamesog: k
(15:57:41) aszeszo: want to test slim_installer build
(15:59:44) chrisridd: I've pinged Cyril Plisko who has some clones of Oracle repos over at Might just take their sfw repo. More interested in anything he's done to spec-files.
(16:00:09) Alasdairrr: Cool :)
(16:00:10) richlowe: easiest thing to do to the JDS subversion repos is git-svn
(16:00:17) richlowe: converting from there seems more functional
(16:00:24) richlowe: other option is SVN::Mirror
(16:00:33) richlowe: which has the benefit of making further experimentation faster.
(16:05:04) Alasdairrr: "In order to make testing for your gatelings easy, set your publisher name to a unique name for your consolidation. e.g. osnet uses on-nightly. RE will take care of translating this to the official publisher name during their build assembly."
(16:05:09) Alasdairrr: Wonder how they do this
(16:05:55) jamesog: PKGPUBLISHER_REDIST in
(16:06:09) richlowe: Alasdairrr: pkg-gate/src/util/publish
(16:06:16) jamesog: then use --set-property with pkg.depotd
(16:06:17) aszeszo: i think you cen reset publisher prefix at any time
(16:06:29) richlowe: jamesog: that doesn't do what you want.
(16:06:41) richlowe: a repository can contain packages for several publishers, it's those in the manifests that matter in this case.
(16:06:53) jamesog: Isn't that what PKGPUBLISHER_REDIST sets?
(16:07:07) richlowe: During the build, yes.
(16:07:12) jamesog: Nod
(16:07:21) richlowe: I was meaning Alasdairrr's last sentence :)
(16:07:31) jamesog: Changing it after the build?
(16:08:02) ***jamesog looks at
(16:08:22) richlowe: not
(16:08:30) richlowe: set-publisher* in src/util/publish
(16:08:53) jamesog: Ah, yes. I misread. Thanks.
(16:08:54) Alasdairrr: just viewing the source too
(16:09:02) richlowe: sec.
(16:09:16) richlowe: (You have to wonder how I got a bad hostkey for localhost into known_hosts)
(16:09:27) jamesog: Heh.
(16:11:54) Alasdairrr: is confusing, it takes 3 arguments - build, a scratch directory and the repository to publish to
(16:12:35) Alasdairrr: ohh
(16:12:44) chrisridd: Can't get the URL right (svn+ssh:// for git svn.
(16:12:50) Alasdairrr: after the "arguments" it takes a list of input repos
(16:13:00) Alasdairrr: perfect
(16:13:15) richlowe: Just drive it from the Makefile
(16:14:13) richlowe: The same makefile has the bits in it to create the fat x86/sparc packages.
(16:14:18) richlowe: you can use the same trick to make fat debug/non-debug.
(16:14:26) richlowe: recipe for that is on, but slightly out of date
(16:14:40) Alasdairrr: *takes a look*
(16:15:10) richlowe: should be only 2 posts, and one is roomba related ranting :)
(16:16:53) chrisridd: git-svn is running now. Maybe it'll overtake hgsubversion :-)
(16:18:53) richlowe: doubt it, it took forever for me.
(16:19:02) richlowe: though I guess I didn't try hgsubversion, just hg convert.
(16:20:46) chrisridd: The problem with hgsubversion is that it seems to be slowing down over time. No real CPU or memory usage.
(16:21:50) chrisridd: hg convert just failed straightaway. Using hg et al from build 134, so possibly quite busted.
(16:22:06) Alasdairrr: it's probably got some horrific scaling issues, I wonder what it's Big-O time is
(16:22:07) Alasdairrr: :)
(16:22:11) richlowe: I found a version that 'worked', but the results were trash.
(16:22:18) richlowe: failing fast saved you a whole bunch of annoyance
(16:23:01) chrisridd: That's what I was thinking, but given the CPU/memory I'm not sure. git's up to r512 already, hg's on r1331. Race race!
(16:26:54) Alasdairrr: richlowe: Have you built slim_install?
(16:28:42) aszeszo: I'm following Rich's notes so the answer would be yes ;)
(16:29:36) Alasdairrr: haha
(16:29:36) Alasdairrr: :D
(16:31:50) richlowe: yeah, I'm currently running 144 of most things.
(16:31:53) richlowe: didn't bother with g11n or man
(16:31:58) richlowe: because man would actually be a downgrade
(16:33:15) richlowe: like I said, the real pain is JDS.
(16:33:27) richlowe: and the fact that once you get here, you can't upload bits piecemeal anymore, because of the inter-dependence.
(16:34:08) Alasdairrr: yeah
(16:34:39) richlowe: the results of what I did are maybe 2.5G/build
(16:34:40) richlowe: (x86 only)
(16:35:12) Alasdairrr: For building a clone livecd, presumably we'd need: SFW, X, JDS - is there anything else we'd need?
(16:35:27) Alasdairrr: Such as the man pages or docs, network storage
(16:37:29) chrisridd: git-svn has just taken 20 minutes to import what hgsubversion has taken 4 hours to import. But will the results be any use?
(16:37:48) Alasdairrr: Do you now have to go from git to hg?
(16:38:11) richlowe: hg convert would probably have some success.
(16:38:20) richlowe: Alasdairrr: you can build with a pretty wide mix of stuff.
(16:38:31) richlowe: you're not going to get a completely self-built CD without more work.
(16:38:42) richlowe: (I'm not sure how much, but the list of packages is in the slim_install package)
(16:39:07) Alasdairrr: I don't suppose you could clarify 'more work' - what things are you thinking of?
(16:39:26) richlowe: Specifically, nspr
(16:39:35) chrisridd: Mozilla...
(16:39:36) richlowe: for historical reasons, Sun had a consolidation that was basically only nspr
(16:39:45) richlowe: shared between the desktop (mozilla), and the JES products.
(16:39:55) jamesog: Hmm. Now that dev09 is b138 I've noticed some differences with the repo commands
(16:40:06) richlowe: so you'd need to duplicate that package (see the package of consolidation sic_team)
(16:40:10) jamesog: there seems to be a pkgrepo command now, and some of the functionality of pkg.depotd has been moved to pkgrepo
(16:40:29) richlowe: but that's only if you really want to build everything, building media with a mix of your bits and bits from pkg.o.o shouldn't be a problem.
(16:40:41) Alasdairrr: okie dokie - thanks for the info!
(16:50:43) chrisridd: Yes, then git to hg. Hopefully not so slow.
(16:52:34) richlowe: -- are the hacks to the distro-importer I used to get installable SFW and JDS bits.
(16:52:41) richlowe: They're crap, and probably will need many changes to be useful.
(16:53:01) richlowe: note especially that the gen_cluster.zsh script has, to my knowledge, not succeeded without manual help yet...
(16:54:49) Alasdairrr: good place to start from!
(17:02:26) Alasdairrr: Hmm, installing things on this onnv_138 box is exploding with: pkg://,5.11-0.134:20100302T043554Z: Required dependency pkg:/network/iscsi/target/legacy@0.5.11,5.11-0.134 is obsolete
(17:02:33) Alasdairrr: is there any way to tell it to not care?
(17:03:44) venture37 left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(17:08:17) Alasdairrr: oh i see the issue :)
(17:08:21) Alasdairrr: i think
(17:08:34) Alasdairrr: on-nightly provides a b136 version
(17:09:06) aszeszo: try running the below:
(17:09:07) aszeszo: echo pfexec pkg install -v `pkg contents -rm redistributable|grep ^depend |sed s/.*fmri=//|sed s/\\@.*/\\ /`|sh
(17:10:06) venture37 [] entered the room.
(17:10:09) venture37 left the room (quit: Changing host).
(17:10:09) venture37 [~venture37@unaffiliated/venture37] entered the room.
(17:16:56) chrisridd_ [] entered the room.
(17:17:05) jamesog: Heh, weird. If you use the default method script for running your own pkg.depotd, everything in the repo has to be owned by root else it can't drop privs
(17:18:03) Alasdairrr: weird
(17:18:44) jamesog: Yeuch. I just tried setting the theme for the openindiana repo to "" thinking it might be nostalgic, but no, it's Oracle-branded :-(
(17:19:06) richlowe: The problem is that you have redistributable installed
(17:19:17) richlowe: if you're going to be doing that, you're going to have to generate a correct 'redistributable'
(17:19:33) chrisridd left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
(17:19:33) chrisridd_ is now known as chrisridd
(17:20:00) Alasdairrr: thing is, that incorporation wasn't installed
(17:20:38) Alasdairrr: basically this is just a vanilla snv_134 box that i've upgraded to onnv_138 and am now trying to install redistributable on from the 134 pkg server
(17:21:25) Alasdairrr: I'm guessing having an out of sync OS install like this causes all kinds of pain
(17:22:05) Alasdairrr: I'm going to drop back to snv_134, install redistributable, then do the onnv_138 upgrade
(17:22:26) jamesog: Ouch
(17:22:32) milek [] entered the room.
(17:25:44) alanc: reading scrolback from yesterday I saw a question about X & closed bits - X builds 129 and later had all the remaining closed bits (at that point just Xsun & the commerical fonts) in completely seperate SVR4 packages that were not converted to IPS by distro-import (i.e. only in SXCE, not in OpenSolaris distro/repo)
(17:26:26) Alasdairrr: morning alanc
(17:26:34) chrisridd: Hi Alan
(17:26:36) alanc: those disappeared completely once SXCE builds stopped being produced (we deleted from our internal gate for 135, after making the 2010.0x branch at 134)
(17:26:43) alanc: good morning
(17:26:56) Alasdairrr: good to know re X
(17:27:02) chrisridd: Is there really no hg repo for spec-files/JDS? subversion's driving me nuts.
(17:27:15) richlowe: there really isn't, JDS use subversion
(17:27:19) richlowe: before that they used CVS
(17:27:32) chrisridd: bangs head against wall.
(17:27:40) richlowe: they're... different.
(17:27:47) richlowe: partly historical (madhatter), partly them being lunatics.
(17:27:55) chrisridd: hysterical raisins (historical reasons) no doubt.
(17:28:13) chrisridd: Mmm.
(17:30:43) Alasdairrr: alanc: reckon its safe to build SFW build 145 on an snv_134 host thats been updated to onnv_138?
(17:41:44) richlowe: Yes.
(17:42:07) richlowe: Most of the cruddy dependencies SFW is likely to have are on itself, I think. Perhaps on JDS.
(17:42:15) Alasdairrr: okay
(17:43:27) jamesog: We need to port the locate utils from FreeBSD. I hate not having those
(17:43:54) Alasdairrr: whats wrong with slocate ?
(17:44:05) jamesog: Does it exist in Solaris?
(17:44:23) alanc: JDS used to claim they used svn because that's what their upstream used - but now mozilla uses hg & gnome uses git
(17:44:29) jamesog: Alasdairrr: slocate: fatal error: Could not find user database '/var/lib/slocate/slocate.db': No such file or directory
(17:44:32) jamesog: useful :p
(17:44:38) Alasdairrr: just have to update your db :)
(17:44:49) chrisridd: I think GNU locate's around as well.
(17:45:03) aszeszo: richlowe: which bits would be required to build osol_b134 + onnv_144 installable/live CD with distro-constructor?
(17:45:05) jamesog: Apparently slocate is GNU locate, security-hardened
(17:45:05) Alasdairrr: gupdatedb, glocate - if they're installed
(17:45:08) alanc: Alasdairrr: I don't know why that wouldn't work, but I've never built SFW, just broken their build
(17:45:23) chrisridd: Good work :-)
(17:45:40) venture37: jamesog: :)
(17:45:40) aszeszo: 144 versions of onnv, pkg, slim_source, anything else?
(17:45:41) alanc: on_137 broke some sfw stuff due to the introduction of getifaddrs but that was fixed long before 145
(17:46:25) ***venture37 waits for pfexec updatedb to complete
(17:46:41) jamesog: venture37: Uh, which box?
(17:46:48) venture37: dev07
(17:46:52) jamesog: OK, good :p
(17:46:56) venture37: :)
(17:47:00) ***jamesog is running on pkgdev
(17:47:29) venture37: been typesetting the OpenBSD faq in LaTeX while waiting for shit to compile
(17:48:44) Alasdairrr: richlowe, alanc - any ideas about aszeszo's question above?
(17:48:59) venture37: brb
(17:49:36) alanc: not sure off hand
(17:51:06) Alasdairrr: Basically our goal is to produce a live cd of, for example snv_144 and we're hoping if we build onnv, slim_source, pkg, X and JDS, docs and man, and run distro constructor against it, an ISO will be shat out that boots and installs
(17:52:23) Alasdairrr: so far we've managed to get all the onnv stuff building, thats been easy, a few builds of SFW have failed so we've just been sorting things out to retry that
(17:52:27) Alasdairrr: slim_source failed to build
(17:52:33) Alasdairrr: we haven't attempted JDS or X yet
(17:54:41) Alasdairrr: We've also encountered some strange things - for example after an onnv build, the repo that gets spat out has 95% packages of the version of the build you're doing, with 5% random older stuff, like network/iscsi/target stuck at b136
(17:55:01) aszeszo: packaged pkg is here: it's been built from the tip of pkg-gate
(17:55:23) aszeszo: manifests have been patched as per richlowe's notes
(17:55:34) aszeszo: so should install on osol134 based systems
(17:55:50) aszeszo: will update the wiki in a bit
(18:00:55) ***alanc goes afk for hours again
(18:04:12) estibi: hi
(18:04:22) Alasdairrr: afternoon estibi !
(18:10:52) chrisridd: Can we attempt to build xnv or does it depend on sfw?
(18:12:24) jamesog: My onnv_145 (re)build is only just finishing! 4 hours!
(18:12:40) jamesog: I assume other people are doing builds on this physical machine
(18:17:12) aszeszo left the room (quit: Quit: aszeszo).
(18:31:33) Alasdairrr: yeah, mine took 3 hours
(18:31:43) Alasdairrr: and sanyaade is doing a build too
(18:32:14) Alasdairrr: also slocate and git-svn are running on pkgdev
(18:32:25) Alasdairrr: pkgdev is on the same physical host as dev01 to dev06
(18:38:59) chrisridd: Yeah, sorry. hg and git are churning away. Reasonable amount of disk IO, but not too much CPU.
(18:40:11) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(18:40:24) Alasdairrr: xvm probably just gets slower over time to spite people who use it
(18:40:46) chrisridd: Obviously why Oracle had to excise it.
(18:41:16) Alasdairrr: i could kill them for that
(18:41:20) Alasdairrr: xVM is lovely
(18:41:25) Alasdairrr: really really useful
(18:41:48) chrisridd: Well, we'll try and bring it back.
(18:42:19) chrisridd: Though it might be more for the illumos guys.
(18:42:23) Alasdairrr: Yes - xen developers are probably rather unhappy that Linux is going to kvm
(18:42:25) chrisridd: to do, I mean.
(18:42:28) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(18:42:55) chrisridd: What's the benefit of xen over kvm?
(18:43:50) Alasdairrr: pass
(18:43:56) Alasdairrr: I can tell you why I like xVM
(18:44:00) venture37: chrisridd: it wasn't thought up by linux kernel developers
(18:44:01) Alasdairrr: xen vs hvm i couldn't care less
(18:44:09) chrisridd: Like might it make sense to make OpenSolaris a KVM hypervisor?
(18:44:26) chrisridd: (Insert massive quantiites of hand waving here.)
(18:44:35) Alasdairrr: i don't think i know enough about the two technologies to pass comment there :)
(18:45:30) chrisridd: Did you look at putting that flash card on the box?
(18:45:50) venture37: :)
(18:47:08) chrisridd: git's about a third done, I think. hg is ... quite a way behind.
(18:47:43) Alasdairrr: chrisridd: the lsi raid card didn't see any drives at all
(18:47:51) Alasdairrr: i think it would require a trip to the datacenter
(18:48:33) storkone: Evening folks, done at the office. How are things progressing in London?
(18:48:40) chrisridd: Not completely straightforward then!
(18:49:17) jamesog: Right. My new 145 build has the right publisher
(18:49:37) jamesog: Although, I might see if I can just fix the existing repo
(18:50:44) Alasdairrr: Cool :)
(18:51:08) jamesog: We might need to work out how to make 'entire' too
(18:51:16) jamesog: Unless we really don't want it
(18:52:04) nofoo [] entered the room.
(18:53:14) nofoo: hi
(18:54:31) Alasdairrr: Yo! :)
(18:54:43) Alasdairrr: how are you doing?
(18:55:20) chicagonpg [] entered the room.
(18:55:35) Alasdairrr: welcome chicagonpg
(18:56:05) chicagonpg: Thanks just stopping by to see what is going on.
(18:56:40) jamesog: We're breaking all of Alasdairrr's servers :-)
(18:56:44) chicagonpg: So how are you?
(18:57:08) nofoo: i'm doing fine. i'm here for the same reason as chicagonpg
(18:57:26) Alasdairrr: we're distribution hacking - trying to produce an iso image of the latest source code for opensolaris
(18:57:51) Alasdairrr: so far we've got numerous builds of onnv (138, 144, 145) all built and available on our package server
(18:58:13) Alasdairrr: People are working on building the other consolidations (SFW, X, slim_source/caiman, docs, man, etc)
(18:58:31) Alasdairrr: Mostly learning and hacking and having fun :)
(18:58:40) Alasdairrr: there's details on the wiki as per the topic!
(18:58:42) chicagonpg: Excellent!! It is going to see that something is going on with opensolaris
(18:59:20) chicagonpg: Good I will check the wiki
(19:02:30) chicagonpg: When did this project begin?
(19:02:36) Alasdairrr: yesterday
(19:03:16) Alasdairrr: i've been poking about speaking to people for a few weeks but no development work was being done - that started yesterday
(19:03:23) Alasdairrr: we'll be announcing on tuesday after Illumos announce their thing
(19:03:30) Alasdairrr: i'm writing the press release at the moment
(19:04:02) sanyaade: well looks like build 138 - Nightly distributed build completed: Sun Aug 1 18:58:35 BST 2010
(19:04:03) nofoo: nice to see that there's something happening
(19:04:16) chicagonpg: I just heard about Illumos yesterday but I haven't checked out any details about it yet.
(19:04:19) Alasdairrr: sanyaade: Yay :)
(19:04:32) Alasdairrr: Illumos haven't said what it is yet, that's happening on tuesday, but I can report it's not a distribution
(19:04:42) storkone: venture37: Nice faq. One thing caught my eye on page 13, "Here are the guidelines
(19:04:43) storkone: to making a printable copy of a man page." But only an empty page follows. The faq continues with chapter 3 on page 15.
(19:07:26) chrisridd: Do we know where the docs and man repos are?
(19:07:34) Alasdairrr: nope!
(19:07:40) chrisridd: \o/
(19:07:44) Alasdairrr: nobody has tried to do those yet
(19:08:27) chrisridd: it would be evil to have the docs in IPS before the software. IBM-like.
(19:08:58) Alasdairrr: lol
(19:09:25) chrisridd: Apparently IBM used to write the manuals first, see if there was interest, and then write the software if there was.
(19:09:44) storkone: Alasdair: Can you send me a login for a 138 build server?
(19:10:22) venture37: storkone: ah, the blank page is inserted by latex, "Here are the guidelines..." is meant to be a link, first thing is to get all the content into a tex file, then make the adjustments
(19:10:27) Alasdairrr: storkone: I can send you a login for a b134 login and you can do a binary update to 138 (note it's just a binary update of onnv, so you'll end up with a franken server with a 138 kernel with 134 userland)
(19:10:38) Alasdairrr: would that do?
(19:12:16) storkone: That would suffice, I'm mainly interested in the environment.
(19:12:31) jamesog: lol at frankenserver
(19:13:11) jamesog: Alasdairrr: btw I'm attempting set-publisher, although scarily I keep seeing 500 errors from the repo
(19:13:17) jamesog: so a few packages didn't make it
(19:15:31) Alasdairrr: okay
(19:15:39) Alasdairrr: strange, wonder what's causing that
(19:15:49) Alasdairrr: may be worth checking the smf log
(19:15:58) Alasdairrr: it logs the stderr of pkg.depotd
(19:16:05) jamesog: 'snot smf atm because I'm pushing to a temp repo
(19:16:20) Alasdairrr: is the temp repo spewing errors out onto the console it was started on?
(19:16:28) jamesog: I can save the output from my terminal window though
(19:16:32) jamesog: yes
(19:16:38) jamesog: well, and all accesses :(
(19:17:36) Alasdairrr: yeah :(
(19:17:48) Alasdairrr: might be worth cancelling it and doing > /tmp/log 2>&1
(19:21:31) jamesog: ok, restarted with --log-access none
(19:23:06) jamesog: Huh. The server didn't see an error
(19:23:09) jamesog: well, didn't log it
(19:26:48) Alasdairrr: perhaps "--log-access none" stops more than just accesses from being logged :)
(19:27:47) venture37: chrisridd: documentation first? interesting
(19:29:44) jamesog: Ah, it seems to be working if you use a local repo and not a remote one!
(19:30:04) venture37: chrisridd: this might tie in with programming practices from the early days, as computer time was expensive, before an code was written you'd document how the program would work & make flow diagrams
(19:31:09) chrisridd: I was under the impression that the majority of the man pages were in IPS already. Not clear how they got there, perhaps an enquiry in the right ears might help. But we still need to get more s/w building.
(19:31:38) sanyaade: bye everybody. Great Guys :)
(19:31:39) chrisridd: JDS commit messages are interesting.
(19:31:41) chrisridd: [r2117] laca: fix catalog path
(19:31:41) chrisridd: [r2118] gman: foobar foo bar rhubarb
(19:31:41) chrisridd: [r2119] gman: arse arse arse arse
(19:31:41) chrisridd: [r2120] gman: let's go fly a kite
(19:31:48) jamesog: lol
(19:32:07) sanyaade left the room (quit: Quit: Leaving).
(19:32:36) Alasdairrr: lol
(19:32:54) Alasdairrr: yes - unfortunately andrzej had to go home earlier, and i'm writing a press release, so not much is being built right now
(19:33:01) Alasdairrr: I don't know if venture37 had another bash at SFW
(19:33:13) venture37: yes
(19:33:14) Alasdairrr: it seems slim_source is the main thing we need to get built
(19:33:18) venture37: It's still building
(19:33:21) Alasdairrr: oh cool :)
(19:33:32) jamesog: What was that again?
(19:33:55) chrisridd: Any way to gauge the SFW build progress?
(19:34:14) chrisridd: Or the number of errors so far ;-)
(19:34:23) venture37: it's building nethack atm
(19:34:30) venture37: :)
(19:34:31) chrisridd: Critical stuff.
(19:34:49) venture37: yes, I hope it comes with dtrace probes
(19:37:38) venture37: it's been running on dev07 for the past 4 hours+, I guess the redistributable package filled in the missing bits
(19:38:18) venture37: Nightly distributed build started: Sun Aug 1 14:23:46 BST 2010
(19:39:18) jamesog: Hrm. set-publisher skips loads of stuff because they have build 133
(19:39:22) jamesog: like... SUNWssh
(19:39:31) jamesog: Are those old packages that aren't needed any longer?
(19:40:01) jamesog: there is a network/ssh, so I suppose so...
(19:41:12) Alasdairrr: its hard to say
(19:41:26) Alasdairrr: i noticed that the build of onnv_138 spat out a lot of older packages into the repo it produced
(19:41:35) Alasdairrr: like a 136 version of network/iscsi/legacy
(19:41:44) jamesog: I'm guessing they're relics of SVR4
(19:42:05) jamesog: is network/iscsi/legacy needed? there are other network/iscsi packages
(19:42:13) Alasdairrr: yeah, no idea
(19:42:21) chrisridd: This isn't an issue with the grand package renaming from SUNW* to foo/bar/baz?
(19:42:28) jamesog: Perhaps
(19:42:53) Alasdairrr: it could be a depreciation thing too
(19:44:37) jamesog: Well, I'm going to risk it and leave them out of the repo
(19:44:57) Alasdairrr: another thing to remember is we can post questions on the mailing lists - people answer them quite quickly
(19:46:34) Alasdairrr: that said, normally richlowe and alanc who answer the questions :)
(19:47:48) chrisridd: pkg-discuss is pretty well populated by the pkg developers. They "get" doing things in the open.
(19:48:38) chrisridd: Good place for asking weird questions about the depotd, consolidations, and their ilk
(19:48:59) Alasdairrr: *nods*
(19:51:04) storkone: I remembered this "Bug 14677 - Rename of SUNWstmf pkg to 'network/iscsi' is incorrect and misleading"
(19:53:08) aszeszo [] entered the room.
(19:56:13) mat- [] entered the room.
(19:56:30) mat-: Home at last.
(20:02:39) Alasdairrr: :D
(20:02:42) Alasdairrr: that took a while!
(20:03:09) storkone: Oh and than there was 6933459 6914623 didn't do proper IPS obsolete of network/iscsi/target/legacy But I don't know if jamesog is facing any of these
(20:03:49) Alasdairrr: oh that's useful to know - thanks storkone !
(20:03:53) Alasdairrr: that's the one i was hitting
(20:05:19) Alasdairrr: i think when I had onnv_138 installed and snv_134 userland, installing incorporations from 134 that included packages made obsolete by 138 prevented the install going ahead
(20:05:21) Alasdairrr: which would make sense
(20:05:58) Alasdairrr: the obsoleted IPS entry is there for people who are upgrading, so the package gets removed
(20:08:44) Alasdairrr: what's everyone up to?
(20:08:49) Alasdairrr: i'm still writing this press release :)
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(20:12:29) mat- [] entered the room.
(20:13:50) jamesog: Alasdairrr: Oh, so you think I need all those <138 packages?
(20:13:59) Alasdairrr: not for a live CD
(20:14:25) Alasdairrr: but if these were all going into an official combined repo with all the builds that people might ugprade from, yeah
(20:14:37) Alasdairrr: I'm not sure if we want to do that yet
(20:14:45) Alasdairrr: concentrating on an installable CD is probably the easiest/simplest goal for now
(20:14:50) jamesog: Probably don't want people "upgrading" from OS to OI
(20:14:55) Alasdairrr: this is all based on an assumption of course
(20:14:56) Alasdairrr: yeah
(20:15:10) jamesog: That'd be like "upgrading" from Debian to Ubuntu
(20:17:11) chrisridd: I think espiri's (sp) instructions for setting publisher with --sticky allowed switching from Oracle's to ours? Or does that mean we need to be as well?
(20:17:41) storkone: I'm still working on a map of the various components and consolidations. This is such a mess.. eh interesting legacy. I think the main reason for the absence of opensolaris developers is the complexity of building anything that resembles a working os.
(20:17:41) Alasdairrr: it's all built from the same source, so people probably could upgrade
(20:18:01) Alasdairrr: storkone: exactly
(20:18:06) Alasdairrr: please do document everything you find out on the wiki
(20:18:24) Alasdairrr: we've made some pretty good docs for building onnv
(20:18:54) chrisridd: It is frightening to think that it used to be worse.
(20:22:14) Alasdairrr: Well the thing is, i don't think it was ever possible before for the community to do their own release
(20:23:00) Alasdairrr: 18 months ago when i built the OS, the output of the build process was a bunch of binaries you cpio'd over your existing SXCE install
(20:23:17) chrisridd: Was that using BFU?
(20:23:19) Alasdairrr: which gave you SXCE with onnv installed, but no IPS (IIRC)
(20:23:21) Alasdairrr: yeah
(20:23:24) storkone: I agree with Alasdair that an installable os, preferably text only no JDS, would already be a tremendous milestone. Think of what people can do with that? They can resolve quite a few ZFS problems, like missing slogs etc. Also most users are text only admins.
(20:23:37) Alasdairrr: yeah
(20:24:15) Alasdairrr: i think aszeszo is going to be giving getting slim_source (the caiman installer) compiling a go
(20:24:15) chrisridd: I think that would be a worthwhile first release, until we resolve the hell of jds and co.
(20:24:20) Alasdairrr: yeah
(20:24:34) Alasdairrr: slim_install is the key thing to do
(20:24:42) jamesog: Er, set-publisher is doing something _very_ odd
(20:24:53) chrisridd: worthwhile == announceable and shippable. As long as we don't bork the branding and stuff.
(20:24:54) Alasdairrr: after the announcement on tuesday we should get a flood of incomers looking to help
(20:25:08) jamesog: I've told it to do build 138, and pointed it at a repo that only has 138 packages, yet somehow it's processing build 145 packages?!
(20:25:10) Alasdairrr: well i think we have to announce on tuesday because of Illumos
(20:25:25) Alasdairrr: jamesog: that's very very wrong :D
(20:25:32) Alasdairrr: is it from a pkg-gate of 145?
(20:25:39) venture37 left the room (quit: Read error: Connection reset by peer).
(20:25:49) Alasdairrr: perhaps there's some stupid requirement that you have to use a matching pkg-gate
(20:25:51) chrisridd: The import of JDS might be done by Tuesday :-)
(20:25:56) jamesog: Well, yes, but how can it find a kernel from 145 when it's looking at a 138 repo?
(20:26:07) Alasdairrr: it hasn't but just rewrote the version number? :)
(20:26:13) Alasdairrr: did you specify a build number?
(20:26:16) jamesog: yes
(20:26:19) Alasdairrr: weird!
(20:26:26) Alasdairrr: truss it, see what its up to
(20:26:27) jamesog: Hence my confusion
(20:27:16) mat- left the room (quit: Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
(20:27:43) jamesog: Oh! I think I see what's happened
(20:27:49) jamesog: it doesn't clear down the working directly
(20:27:54) jamesog: directory*
(20:28:25) Alasdairrr: nope!
(20:28:26) Alasdairrr: :D
(20:28:44) ***jamesog tries again
(20:28:45) Alasdairrr:
(20:28:50) Alasdairrr: I wrote up details of it
(20:29:18) jamesog: Right, let's try this again
(20:29:32) Alasdairrr: :)
(20:30:51) storkone: To help people understand the various components I propose to create a diagram like at This diagram must show the components and their relations to the uninitiated. Color coding might help to indicate closed bins, consolidations etc.
(20:30:53) venture37 [~venture37@unaffiliated/venture37] entered the room.
(20:31:01) jamesog: That's better!
(20:31:07) ***jamesog claps
(20:31:17) Alasdairrr: storkone: Do you think you'd be able to do that?
(20:35:15) storkone left the room.
(20:35:19) storkone [] entered the room.
(20:36:58) Alasdairrr: storkone: do you have an account on the wiki?
(20:38:03) chrisridd: If you need to do a pretty diagram, I've got omnigraffle on my Mac and am not afraid to use it. Lovely output, handles force-directed (a connects to b) relationships too.
(20:38:23) storkone: Oh boy I just closed my tab and lost the entire chat of this weekend. (Strong language can be heard within a mile) Does anybody have a log of this weekend?
(20:38:32) chrisridd: Imports graphviz .dot if that helps.
(20:39:13) storkone: Not yet but I can sign up.
(20:39:24) chrisridd: Just realized Colloquay wasn't logging :-(
(20:39:44) jamesog: I stopped logging in irssi some time ago
(20:40:42) Alasdairrr: I can stick up a log
(20:40:44) Alasdairrr: one moment
(20:42:29) Alasdairrr:
(20:42:31) Alasdairrr: 3 attachments
(20:42:41) Alasdairrr:
(20:44:32) storkone: If anybody wants to do a braindump on a paper napkin of the various components please do so. Nothing fancy just the outlines. Scan it, take a snapshot with your phone and send it to me. I'll whip something up.
(20:46:59) Alasdairrr: well so far there's not a huge amount to reveal, there are a set of core consolidations: ONNV (the kernel + core userland), slim_source/Caiman (the installer), pkg (the IPS packaging system), X (The X Window System), JDS (The desktop environment), Docs and Man Pages
(20:47:07) Alasdairrr: there are some others but those are the main ones
(20:47:17) Alasdairrr: oh and SFW (The Sun Freeware collection)
(20:47:21) Alasdairrr: thats quite key too
(20:47:34) Alasdairrr: if you build all of those and stick the results in an IPS repo you can then run the Distribution Constructor to churn out a live CD
(20:47:45) Alasdairrr: easy as that, 'parrently
(20:48:01) Alasdairrr: the reality is probably somewhat different - there's a lot of pain in getting everything built